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You forgot to add: "and whose brand has taken a strong market stance on privacy and security." I think people expect Microsoft and Google to cave given how ca

You forgot to add: "and whose brand has taken a strong market stance on privacy and security." I think people expect Microsoft and Google to cave given how cavalier they've been with user data, particularly of late, so seeing them back this is a bit two-faced. However for Apple, this could have a significant impact on how their brand is perceived in the market depending on how high of a priority the "privacy/security" aspect is with their customer-base. They will fight this as hard as they can because those dollars aren't just wasted legal costs, they are building trust in the brand since they are putting their money where their mouth is.

twobuy 11y ago
I definitely agree. This, combined with Apple open-sourcing Swift, makes it feel like Apple is grabbing some of that coveted tech/developer-friendly cachet that Google and Amazon seem to have over them.
Cyph0n 11y ago
They have convinced me to be honest. My next phone is an iPhone.
mmmBacon 11y ago
Former Apple employee here. My impression is that Tim and other high level management are really committed to user privacy in a very Jobsian way. It isn't something that's being driven by some marketing person (although they are clearly using it that way). Honestly, I doubt their business would suffer if they caved. It's their philosophy. I saw it at all levels within the company. I think their stance on user privacy is a natural outcome of the need-to-know company culture within Apple.
- shostack 11y ago
  Great point. And I think my comment may have implied more of a "this is a marketing play" message than I intended. Everything Apple has done over the past few years have really cemented their stance on privacy/security as a top priority, even when it means sacrificing some obvious revenue in the short-term. A more accurate way to phrase this is I feel privacy and security are now a part of Apple's DNA much like design has been historically. It isn't just what the leadership stands for, it is what the company stands for. So when the question arises internally of "how far do we fight this," I'm left with the distinct impression that the immediate response is "as far as we need to in order to win."
petra 11y ago
I'm curious about a few scenarios: - Apple hasn't chose privacy as brand strategy. - Apple have chosen that strategy, and either loses or wins the trial How different it's market share would look like considering that realistically it's largely a prestige brand, and the relatively low popularity of secure Android phones like the black phone ?
- shostack 11y ago
  Tough call. It would certainly be one of the most public discussions around government privacy we've had with regards to mobile phones. Apple would take a big PR hit from being associated with having unsecure phones, but that would also raise the question of whether other phones are any better (or worse). So it may be a wash all around.

twobuy 11y ago

I definitely agree. This, combined with Apple open-sourcing Swift, makes it feel like Apple is grabbing some of that coveted tech/developer-friendly cachet that Google and Amazon seem to have over them.

Cyph0n 11y ago

They have convinced me to be honest. My next phone is an iPhone.

mmmBacon 11y ago

Former Apple employee here. My impression is that Tim and other high level management are really committed to user privacy in a very Jobsian way. It isn't something that's being driven by some marketing person (although they are clearly using it that way). Honestly, I doubt their business would suffer if they caved. It's their philosophy. I saw it at all levels within the company. I think their stance on user privacy is a natural outcome of the need-to-know company culture within Apple.

shostack 11y ago
Great point. And I think my comment may have implied more of a "this is a marketing play" message than I intended. Everything Apple has done over the past few years have really cemented their stance on privacy/security as a top priority, even when it means sacrificing some obvious revenue in the short-term. A more accurate way to phrase this is I feel privacy and security are now a part of Apple's DNA much like design has been historically. It isn't just what the leadership stands for, it is what the company stands for. So when the question arises internally of "how far do we fight this," I'm left with the distinct impression that the immediate response is "as far as we need to in order to win."

petra 11y ago

I'm curious about a few scenarios: - Apple hasn't chose privacy as brand strategy. - Apple have chosen that strategy, and either loses or wins the trial How different it's market share would look like considering that realistically it's largely a prestige brand, and the relatively low popularity of secure Android phones like the black phone ?

shostack 11y ago
Tough call. It would certainly be one of the most public discussions around government privacy we've had with regards to mobile phones. Apple would take a big PR hit from being associated with having unsecure phones, but that would also raise the question of whether other phones are any better (or worse). So it may be a wash all around.