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"Whenever I see a brilliant kid decide to join Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, or Google, I think to myself: a startup just died, and as a result our world is a little
by nfnaaron 17y ago
"Whenever I see a brilliant kid decide to join Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, or Google, I think to myself: a startup just died, and as a result our world is a little less wealthy, innovative, and interesting."
Or, a future founder just began the process of gaining experience and perspective.
- philk 17y agoThis is a bit of a trap. It's easier to take big risks if you have little to lose. Once you're established at McKinsey, Goldman Sachs or Google you have a comfortable standard of living and a job that gives you both challenges and social status. Letting go of all that to be the guy slaving away at a crazy idea is often harder than trying the crazy idea because you have little else. Also when you're busy at work time can just fly by. It's easy to look up from working and find a few years have gone past.
- ALee 17y agoSame with startups. One moment you're in college starting a startup, the next you're 3 years older still doing the same thing. Startups are a more difficult path because they don't always have forward momentum because of the high risk.
- nfnaaron 17y ago"This is a bit of a trap." Yes, it can be. The truth is, some of those brilliant kids going into BigCorp are lost startups, some are future startups, and most won't be startups regardless, because most people aren't founders. "Also when you're busy at work time can just fly by. It's easy to look up from working and find a few years have gone past." Roger that.
- EricBurnett 17y agoThe truth is, some of those brilliant kids going into BigCorp are lost startups, some are future startups, and most won't be startups regardless, because most people aren't founders. Exactly. I will be starting at Google in June, but I am not a "startup lost". I have thought about it, and eventually came to the conclusion that I am not startup material for a number of reasons. This may change in the future after I have worked for Google, and if so, I can always join a startup then.
- huherto 17y agoYou probably know this already, but it if you dream of eventually doing a start up make sure to keep your expenses under control now. Your expenses tend to grow along your paycheck. It can be really hard to downsize if you decide to go the start up route.
- mikepurvis 17y agoI agree with this. Even if your paycheque is $5k a month, practice living on half of that or less—maybe a lot less. It won't hurt to save the rest anyway.
- sailormoon 17y agoAgree, agree, 100x agree! You do not need a BMW, buy a corolla. You do not need the loft, live in the cheapest decent unit you can find. Don't get into the showy lifestyle trap.
- ojbyrne 17y agoOne of the rules of thumb I heard somewhere and try to do (though it's pretty damn hard) is to save 1/3 of your gross salary.
- huherto 17y agoThat is exactly right. I wish to start up a company. Or devote more time to the companies that I already started. But mostly because I don't feel I fit any more in the corporate bureaucracy and politics that drains my energy every day. Yet it is hard to trade the security of a good paying job for the risk of starting up a company.
- gridspy 17y agoThen the only other option is to go hell for leather on your start-up in your free time, even if that means you don't have a life. If it doesn't get you that fired up, perhaps you need to brainstorm a better opportunity. I can't leave my cushy job yet either.
- tetha 17y agoPlus if it is a goodcrazy idea, chances are that it might be built as a google application.
- jasonkester 17y agoAh, but if you have managed to make yourself ridiculously employable by proving yourself at a few high-profile companies, then you suddenly have "little to lose" again. One of the reasons I feel like I can safely Entrepreneur myself down to a few grand in the bank before looking for a contract to top up the finances is that I know I'm pretty much a single Twitter post away from a good job offer. Had I not first established a bit of a reputation before taking off on the startup track, I wouldn't have that safety net, and might be a bit more quick to grab any contract job that came along.
- gridspy 17y agoThat is a pretty good safety net right there. Though in some ways it is great to "burn the boats", because having your back to the wall and being forced to make it work (even if that involves a week of cold calling) can be the difference between success and giving up.
- gaius 17y agoExactly. And having a "name brand" on your CV helps more than having been to a top college. 3 years at McK or GS and you will never have trouble getting anyone to take you seriously in business. It doesn't excuse you from anything important, but it does mean you don't need to waste time establishing your credentials to everyone you speak to.
- hello_moto 17y agoI'd love to see more people to pursue this stream (Join Google, learn, and become a founder in the future). There's a lot to learn from Google (especially in terms of code review, writing good, clean, well documented code). Let's rephrase that: "Every time I see a brilliant kid going to a chaotic startup that encourage shortcuts and brilliant hacks, I see our industry dying slowly." PS: I understand that not all startups are like that, but what are the odds/ratios?
- vorador 17y agoNot necessarily. After all, Unix was built by brillant kids who glorified shortcuts and brilliant hacks.
- strlen 17y agoI understand this is an ironic thing for me to say, given my alias, but is UNIX (along with C and C-descended languages) the best we could do?
- peterwwillis 17y agoFor the PDP-7/11? Probably.
- strlen 17y agoCertainly agreed, it's amazing what they've accomplished on such limited machines, just it shouldn't be held as a pinnacle of engineering or computer science (else, why would the people who built it be at working on plan9 and go?)
- jmtulloss 17y agoThe best we can do is usually not the goal. Good enough is the goal. People look at great products and say that sentiment isn't true, but you always have to release. Take the first iPhone. When it came to feature checklists, it was embarrassed by every competitor out there. It nailed the interface though, and that was Apple's definition of "good enough". The shipped, took the industry by storm, and have since added most of those checklist features that everybody thought they needed in the first place.
- dagw 17y agoExactly, most truly successful entrepreneurs I know had a few (or a lot of) years in a larger company before starting their company. This gave them not only vital experiences, but also a lot of insight into the problem which their company tries to solve.
- mattm 17y agoIncluding Steve Jobs (although I'm not sure on the number of years for him)
- frederickcook 17y agoI absolutely disagree. With YCombinator and the dozen similar programs out there, the traditional barriers to starting companies, namely "not knowing what you don't know" are being removed. For a web start-up especially, the only cost associated with the startup for a group of young founders is time. The goal at Google, Goldman Sachs, and McKinsey is to recruit top talent, and give them enough money and benefits that they are completely content and never have a reason to leave. Some still will, but most are probably destined for a career as a middle manager.
- wakeupthedawn 17y agoMaybe this is true at Google, but you need a fair amount of dedication to stick around at Goldman or McKinsey. Nobody becomes a career middle manager there. Well, maybe some back-office jobs at GS.
- silverlake 17y agoAccording to friends at Goldman, it's quite easy to be a career middle manager at Goldman in IT. There are many people there for 20+ years, the only job they've ever had. I've been told that McKinsey has an "up or out" culture (get promoted or leave).
- mortenjorck 17y ago1. Get recruited by Google 2. Work at Google for a few years, start a 20% project 3. Leave Google, become a founder 4. Get funding, hire more employees 5. Launch a successful product, build a big userbase, get favorable media coverage 6. Get acquired by Google
- jules 17y agoIsn't the 20% product owned by Google already?
- ejames 17y agoYes, but once you're "the guy/gal who wrote $SUCCESSFUL_GOOGLE_PRODUCT", you have a lot of credibility, experience, etc. as resources to make your own product that you do own. The point of the 20% products for Google is to give the company startup-style flexibility. It works the other way, too - if you take a product from whiteboard doodling all the way to an official Google product, well, a startup is like that, except 100% of the time, on your own bank account, and with no admins/middle managers to take care of the business side for you.
- gridspy 17y agoYes, but given the 20,000 employees at Google, how many $SUCCESSFUL_GOOGLE_PRODUCTs have you seen per employee?
- mortenjorck 17y agoI'd guess ex-Googler startups tend to draw more from their founders' general experience at Google than from specific products, but I've heard of rebooting the idea of a 20% project outside with a broader scope.
- bgraves 17y agoInteresting timing :) Looks like this is what happened with Aardvak. I'm just speculating, but the formula seems to hold true in this instance. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1118214 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1118214
- sjs 17y agoNot to mention that startups can't do everything a company the size of Google can (such as start their own ISP providing gigabit service). There is a place in our society for all shapes and sizes of companies.
- frederickcook 17y agoI think the fact that this comment keeps getting up-voted is an indicator of the high ratio of Google employees to startup founders on HN this morning.
- dasil003 17y agoFunny you should mention Goldman Sachs. The startup I work for is founded by a former Goldman guy, and I'm looking out my apartment window at a startup founded by a bunch of Google guys (BloomReach).
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- iron_ball 17y agoNot to mention that if you're successful at Goldman Sachs, you can quit and spend the rest of your life doing startups and still have enough left over for a golden pyramid when you die.
- rbanffy 17y agoDon't forget Microsoft.
- Sukotto 17y agoLooking back over the last decade, it seems like Microsoft is a lot closer to IBM than to Google. People don't go there to learn how to innovate. they go there to work a full-time job for the rest of their lives.
- mkramlich 17y agoAnd gaining contacts and cash. Which in turn help him later to build a startup. So I agree, it's not all bad.