5 ms·

Spent my high school years in a poor, rural county in southeastern Virginia that was mostly black. All of these folks were descended from slaves, and there was

by JPKab 11y ago

Spent my high school years in a poor, rural county in southeastern Virginia that was mostly black. All of these folks were descended from slaves, and there was never a doubt in my mind that white oppression in the past had created numerous, deep disadvantages for my friends and classmates who had the misfortune of being part of families who had suffered from the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. That being said, I've always found that black ethnocentrism has a similar effect to white ethnocentrism: it causes further division and worsens the problem it claims to try to solve. The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. Most of my friends growing up were black. My best friend was closer to me than my brothers, was best man at my wedding, and I at his. It also over-simplifies a complex problem, that has at its root the fact that the hostile relationship between blacks and police is not one-directional. It was started by white police with decades of oppression, but the current situation is a cycle perpetuated by the thought that police are the enemy. If you have been told your whole life that police are the enemy, then you are going to behave differently when they approach you than someone else. If the police are in a community where everyone has been taught this, they will behave in a way that ends up supporting this belief, and the seeds of conflict are sown. Ethnocentrism has never, ever helped unify people. My personal experience growing up and socializing in a mostly black social environment left me with the impression that there is a minority of black Americans who, similar to a minority of white Americans, are ethnocentric and racist towards those who don't share their race. The difference is that the black variety of ethnocentric activists are openly tolerated and encouraged by white people who have never in their life spent ten minutes under the roof of a black person's home, let alone attended black churches or been involved in family events such as Thanksgiving dinners, weddings, funerals, etc. Racism is a part of the human condition, as is its direct precursor, ethnocentrism. Pretending that it's different depending on the person's complexion tells me that these white folks view black Americans as different than themselves, almost less human. I hold all humans, no matter how difficult their background, to a higher standard.

Kinnard 11y ago
I'm not sure it's ethno-centrist so much as ethno-corrective
mcphage 11y ago
> The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. Why do you think it's about you?
evan_ 11y ago
> because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. It absolutely does not make that assumption.
skybrian 11y ago
I think the solution is to stop taking offense. The point isn't to say other injustices don't matter - it's to shine a spotlight on a particular type of injustice that needs attention. And you can't say it hasn't helped. People are more aware of problems between the police and the black community than they were even a few years ago.
wpietri 11y ago
> The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter No. Statements don't make assumptions. People make assumptions. And you are the particular person making these assumptions. Personally, I make different ones. The way I (as another white person) read it is as a wake-up call. I think it wouldn't work as a slogan if white people truly thought that black lives didn't matter. It's a reminder to me that although black lives do matter to me, the system I participate in (and benefit from) treats black lives as worth less. To me, "Black Lives Matter" is just the opposite of ethnocentric thinking. It's a way to expose existing ethnic bias so we can fight ethnocentric systems. Until people admit there's a problem, we can't fix the problem. When I hear (or say) "Black Lives Matter", I think it's a way of pointing out the ongoing disadvantages that are carried forward from our deeply egregious past.
simpfai 11y ago
well said
kafkaesq 11y ago
That being said, I've always found that black ethnocentrism has a similar effect to white ethnocentrism: it causes further division and worsens the problem it claims to try to solve. Or, it can be something you just don't have to worry about. I think I'd leave it up to the constituency in question as to whether their position is too "ethnocentric" or is otherwise less than ideal for them in some way. The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. Words are imperfect, in general. In this case, it's just saying, born out of a need to address a very serious problem. The bottom line is that it isn't about you. So you don't have to think about it, let alone get offended by it, if you don't want to.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. There is no such assumption embodied in the statement, and to assume there is requires the extreme vanity of assuming that the slogan must be a message about you. Rather, the message is that the manner in which black people are treated overall in society demonstrates that society at large acts as if black lives do not matter, and this needs to be corrected. It does not assume that this behavior is either universal among or exclusive to non-blacks (BLM expressly concerns itself with ways in which the black community, including other "black liberation" movements, marginalize certain segments of the black community.)

by JPKab 11y ago

Kinnard 11y ago

I'm not sure it's ethno-centrist so much as ethno-corrective

mcphage 11y ago

evan_ 11y ago

> because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. It absolutely does not make that assumption.

skybrian 11y ago

I think the solution is to stop taking offense. The point isn't to say other injustices don't matter - it's to shine a spotlight on a particular type of injustice that needs attention. And you can't say it hasn't helped. People are more aware of problems between the police and the black community than they were even a few years ago.

wpietri 11y ago

> The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter No. Statements don't make assumptions. People make assumptions. And you are the particular person making these assumptions. Personally, I make different ones. The way I (as another white person) read it is as a wake-up call. I think it wouldn't work as a slogan if white people truly thought that black lives didn't matter. It's a reminder to me that although black lives do matter to me, the system I participate in (and benefit from) treats black lives as worth less. To me, "Black Lives Matter" is just the opposite of ethnocentric thinking. It's a way to expose existing ethnic bias so we can fight ethnocentric systems. Until people admit there's a problem, we can't fix the problem. When I hear (or say) "Black Lives Matter", I think it's a way of pointing out the ongoing disadvantages that are carried forward from our deeply egregious past.

simpfai 11y ago

well said

kafkaesq 11y ago

That being said, I've always found that black ethnocentrism has a similar effect to white ethnocentrism: it causes further division and worsens the problem it claims to try to solve. Or, it can be something you just don't have to worry about. I think I'd leave it up to the constituency in question as to whether their position is too "ethnocentric" or is otherwise less than ideal for them in some way. The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. Words are imperfect, in general. In this case, it's just saying, born out of a need to address a very serious problem. The bottom line is that it isn't about you. So you don't have to think about it, let alone get offended by it, if you don't want to.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> The statement "Black Lives Matter" offends me, because it makes the assumption that because I'm not black, I don't think black lives matter, and therefore have to be told that they do. There is no such assumption embodied in the statement, and to assume there is requires the extreme vanity of assuming that the slogan must be a message about you. Rather, the message is that the manner in which black people are treated overall in society demonstrates that society at large acts as if black lives do not matter, and this needs to be corrected. It does not assume that this behavior is either universal among or exclusive to non-blacks (BLM expressly concerns itself with ways in which the black community, including other "black liberation" movements, marginalize certain segments of the black community.)