6 ms·

This is great. Mozilla is focussing on its core competency. No mobile OS, no identity built in the browser, no distractions—no, it's just about the browser and

This is great. Mozilla is focussing on its core competency. No mobile OS, no identity built in the browser, no distractions—no, it's just about the browser and how to make it better. What this guy showed is just impressive, well done and please more of such achievements.

ultramancool 11y ago
And as a bonus they're building all this in Rust, probably the first language to seriously compete with C++ (for the things C++ is good at, like web browsers and game engines, where complexity and speed rule out most other languages).
- s986s 11y ago
  I think them building it in rust is a good thing. But rust is a mozilla project so its not as though theyre doing people favors. What it certainly does is showcase the strength of the language considering they have proven to be so badass
  - ultramancool 11y ago
    That's sort of what I meant to get at - building Rust is a huge service to other people, and an important one too. Servo is showing that they're really putting the effort into optimizing it and making things work as best as possible.
- narag 11y ago
  Not sure if you have noticed but... you are agreeing to a comment that celebrates Mozilla focusing in, and only in, its core competency and adding that they used a new language they created :-)
  - DasIch 11y ago
    Browsers are already highly specialized and complex VMs. If you have the ability to build a browser and work on all parts of it, you have the ability to create new languages. So creating a new language is not at all that far away from their core competency. They are also working in a space where they have a strong need for a good systems language, so the motivation is there as well.
- clouddrover 11y ago
  > probably the first language to seriously compete with C++ How about Object Pascal? I think Object Pascal is a better C++ than C++. It's too bad it isn't more widely used. Here are a couple of interesting perspectives from people who have done some recent development with Object Pascal: 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11005203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11005203 (see also https://github.com/whatwg/wattsi https://github.com/whatwg/wattsi) 2. http://ziotom78.blogspot.com/2015/01/lfi-data-analysis-with-fpc.html http://ziotom78.blogspot.com/2015/01/lfi-data-analysis-with-...
  - rtpg 11y ago
    I think the comment isn't really about the technical merits, but more about the fact that Rust has gotten some major traction, not just in Mozilla but elsewhere.
    - clouddrover 11y ago
      Where else? Rust usage is quite small at the moment relative to Object Pascal and definitely to C++. The new language that's rapidly gaining marketshare is Swift, mostly because Apple's pushing it.
      - Crespyl 11y ago
        The most notable one I'm aware of is Dropbox, who are reportedly using Rust in production for some low-level parts of their storage platform.
        clouddrover 11y ago
        Do you have a link to the reports? Python and Go seem to be used a lot at Dropbox. Blog post on their Go usage: https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2014/07/open-sourcing-our-go-libraries/ https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2014/07/open-sourcing-our-go-... I could only find two Rust repositories on their github page, both of which are library bindings forked from other projects, so that seems to indicate some Rust usage. But then again there are more Haskell repositories than Rust repositories: https://github.com/dropbox https://github.com/dropbox
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>no identity built in the browser Except a non-commercial identity provider would be wonderful. The status quo of Google/Facebook providing identity is insane. They can also use this as leverage against Mozilla politically. Hell, I get pissed when I can't google login to a site nowadays. Shame Mozilla couldn't be the ones providing this. I certainly see it as important to the web. Mozilla shouldn't be just a browser maker. I do agree about mobile OS and other things. I don't think every organization should have its own OS. There are way too many right now, if anything, and its a non-trivial project.
- epoch1970 11y ago
  > Except a non-commercial identity provider would be wonderful. We've had that all along. It's called email. It's decentralized. There are already numerous free providers. There are already numerous commercial providers. You can even be your own provider, if you want. You can have multiple identities, and they can be as loosely or as tightly tied to your actual identity as you want. Many services or web site will already let you use an email address, along with a password, to authenticate. What you're asking for already exists!
  - Certhas 11y ago
    And we all use it all the time. But the user experience of google log in or facebook log in is manifestly much much superior. The fact that the inferior legacy solution is still around lessens the pain, but it's still a tragedy that Mozilla did not succeed to establish a competitive modern solution. I think it is merely a matter of time until email log in is no longer ubiquitous.
- warbiscuit 11y ago
  Yeah, I was saddened by them abadoning Persona. It was a really great idea, even if there were some flaws related to how one was supposed to change username if you shift emails. I feel like they never gave it the effort it deserved... never even saw a FF addon providing the browser integration they targeting :(
jallmann 11y ago
> No mobile OS, no identity built in the browser, no distractions—it's just about the browser and how to make it better That's a rather narrow view of what the open Internet should be. Declaring failure with FirefoxOS and Persona was a blow for the Internet at large: it solidifies the status quo, which is growing more closed and proprietary by the day. Resources are understandably finite and Mozilla can't do everything at once, but there is a still lot of good they can do adjacent to the strict confines of the browser.
- jsight 11y ago
  I'm not sure that adding another OS was the thing to do to fight the ongoing trend towards a proprietary internet. A better browser, including a better mobile browser is much more useful than Firefox OS every could be, IMO. In fact, this is part of what makes pure OSS Android a practical environment to work in. I am very glad that they are continuing to put a lot of effort into Firefox on mobile.
  - astrodust 11y ago
    Maybe Mozilla isn't a big enough company to tackle it, or it diffuses their focus, but it's important to do. Ubuntu is still trying, so there's that, and that's great. http://www.ubuntu.com/phone http://www.ubuntu.com/phone
    - azinman2 11y ago
      Waste of effort. It's never going to work -- the gap is so far and the network effect of apps and ecosystem are so entrenched that Ubuntu would have to do something revolutionary versus an incomplete copy of what other's already have invented and are still improving with massive (collective) resources. Add a dedicated hardware requirement and you've got the nail in the coffin.
      - bryanlarsen 11y ago
        It'll work the same way it happened in PC land. 1: Microsoft will ensure that capable hardware (both phones and peripherals) exists so that Continuum succeeds. 2: Ubuntu will leverage the hardware so that it's usable by the 1% who actually want it. 1% of a really big number is still a big number, so it'll be viable, if only barely.
knappe 11y ago
I'm 100% for this. I used to use Firefox for everything. But then Chrome was released which had a much better developer experience (and still does, in my eyes). I'd rather go back to Firefox but each time I do, I find a feature or performance issue that keeps me going back to Chrome. I _really_ wish this wasn't the case.
- JohnBooty 11y ago
  I wonder how much of that is just familiarity. FF is my main browser, and I always feel a little hamstrung when I use Chrome's dev tools. People obviously do great work with Chrome's dev tools, though, so I'm pretty sure it's just my familiary with FF and my lack of familiarity with Chrome.
digi_owl 11y ago
The mobile OS as basically android with a UI rendered in gecko. I find it more troubling seeing them continually locking down the ability to customize the browser to my liking, and instead chase Chrome's design language. Never mind that Mozilla, like much of FOSS as of late, have been conducting all kind of "social consciousness"(or should i say "social justice"?) projects that has crap all to do with writing good code. Projects that end up being a time and money sink for already small (compared to the various corporate entities they are competing with) orgs. If i was the conspiratorial kind i would wonder if they had been infiltrated. But more likely they are being "infected" by a "victim" culture that has been brewing in on college campuses for some time.

ultramancool 11y ago

And as a bonus they're building all this in Rust, probably the first language to seriously compete with C++ (for the things C++ is good at, like web browsers and game engines, where complexity and speed rule out most other languages).

s986s 11y ago
I think them building it in rust is a good thing. But rust is a mozilla project so its not as though theyre doing people favors. What it certainly does is showcase the strength of the language considering they have proven to be so badass
- ultramancool 11y ago
  That's sort of what I meant to get at - building Rust is a huge service to other people, and an important one too. Servo is showing that they're really putting the effort into optimizing it and making things work as best as possible.
narag 11y ago
Not sure if you have noticed but... you are agreeing to a comment that celebrates Mozilla focusing in, and only in, its core competency and adding that they used a new language they created :-)
- DasIch 11y ago
  Browsers are already highly specialized and complex VMs. If you have the ability to build a browser and work on all parts of it, you have the ability to create new languages. So creating a new language is not at all that far away from their core competency. They are also working in a space where they have a strong need for a good systems language, so the motivation is there as well.
clouddrover 11y ago
> probably the first language to seriously compete with C++ How about Object Pascal? I think Object Pascal is a better C++ than C++. It's too bad it isn't more widely used. Here are a couple of interesting perspectives from people who have done some recent development with Object Pascal: 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11005203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11005203 (see also https://github.com/whatwg/wattsi https://github.com/whatwg/wattsi) 2. http://ziotom78.blogspot.com/2015/01/lfi-data-analysis-with-fpc.html http://ziotom78.blogspot.com/2015/01/lfi-data-analysis-with-...
- rtpg 11y ago
  I think the comment isn't really about the technical merits, but more about the fact that Rust has gotten some major traction, not just in Mozilla but elsewhere.
  - clouddrover 11y ago
    Where else? Rust usage is quite small at the moment relative to Object Pascal and definitely to C++. The new language that's rapidly gaining marketshare is Swift, mostly because Apple's pushing it.
    - Crespyl 11y ago
      The most notable one I'm aware of is Dropbox, who are reportedly using Rust in production for some low-level parts of their storage platform.
      - clouddrover 11y ago
        Do you have a link to the reports? Python and Go seem to be used a lot at Dropbox. Blog post on their Go usage: https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2014/07/open-sourcing-our-go-libraries/ https://blogs.dropbox.com/tech/2014/07/open-sourcing-our-go-... I could only find two Rust repositories on their github page, both of which are library bindings forked from other projects, so that seems to indicate some Rust usage. But then again there are more Haskell repositories than Rust repositories: https://github.com/dropbox https://github.com/dropbox

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

>no identity built in the browser Except a non-commercial identity provider would be wonderful. The status quo of Google/Facebook providing identity is insane. They can also use this as leverage against Mozilla politically. Hell, I get pissed when I can't google login to a site nowadays. Shame Mozilla couldn't be the ones providing this. I certainly see it as important to the web. Mozilla shouldn't be just a browser maker. I do agree about mobile OS and other things. I don't think every organization should have its own OS. There are way too many right now, if anything, and its a non-trivial project.

epoch1970 11y ago
> Except a non-commercial identity provider would be wonderful. We've had that all along. It's called email. It's decentralized. There are already numerous free providers. There are already numerous commercial providers. You can even be your own provider, if you want. You can have multiple identities, and they can be as loosely or as tightly tied to your actual identity as you want. Many services or web site will already let you use an email address, along with a password, to authenticate. What you're asking for already exists!
- Certhas 11y ago
  And we all use it all the time. But the user experience of google log in or facebook log in is manifestly much much superior. The fact that the inferior legacy solution is still around lessens the pain, but it's still a tragedy that Mozilla did not succeed to establish a competitive modern solution. I think it is merely a matter of time until email log in is no longer ubiquitous.
warbiscuit 11y ago
Yeah, I was saddened by them abadoning Persona. It was a really great idea, even if there were some flaws related to how one was supposed to change username if you shift emails. I feel like they never gave it the effort it deserved... never even saw a FF addon providing the browser integration they targeting :(

jallmann 11y ago

> No mobile OS, no identity built in the browser, no distractions—it's just about the browser and how to make it better That's a rather narrow view of what the open Internet should be. Declaring failure with FirefoxOS and Persona was a blow for the Internet at large: it solidifies the status quo, which is growing more closed and proprietary by the day. Resources are understandably finite and Mozilla can't do everything at once, but there is a still lot of good they can do adjacent to the strict confines of the browser.

jsight 11y ago
I'm not sure that adding another OS was the thing to do to fight the ongoing trend towards a proprietary internet. A better browser, including a better mobile browser is much more useful than Firefox OS every could be, IMO. In fact, this is part of what makes pure OSS Android a practical environment to work in. I am very glad that they are continuing to put a lot of effort into Firefox on mobile.
- astrodust 11y ago
  Maybe Mozilla isn't a big enough company to tackle it, or it diffuses their focus, but it's important to do. Ubuntu is still trying, so there's that, and that's great. http://www.ubuntu.com/phone http://www.ubuntu.com/phone
  - azinman2 11y ago
    Waste of effort. It's never going to work -- the gap is so far and the network effect of apps and ecosystem are so entrenched that Ubuntu would have to do something revolutionary versus an incomplete copy of what other's already have invented and are still improving with massive (collective) resources. Add a dedicated hardware requirement and you've got the nail in the coffin.
    - bryanlarsen 11y ago
      It'll work the same way it happened in PC land. 1: Microsoft will ensure that capable hardware (both phones and peripherals) exists so that Continuum succeeds. 2: Ubuntu will leverage the hardware so that it's usable by the 1% who actually want it. 1% of a really big number is still a big number, so it'll be viable, if only barely.

knappe 11y ago

I'm 100% for this. I used to use Firefox for everything. But then Chrome was released which had a much better developer experience (and still does, in my eyes). I'd rather go back to Firefox but each time I do, I find a feature or performance issue that keeps me going back to Chrome. I _really_ wish this wasn't the case.

JohnBooty 11y ago
I wonder how much of that is just familiarity. FF is my main browser, and I always feel a little hamstrung when I use Chrome's dev tools. People obviously do great work with Chrome's dev tools, though, so I'm pretty sure it's just my familiary with FF and my lack of familiarity with Chrome.

digi_owl 11y ago

The mobile OS as basically android with a UI rendered in gecko. I find it more troubling seeing them continually locking down the ability to customize the browser to my liking, and instead chase Chrome's design language. Never mind that Mozilla, like much of FOSS as of late, have been conducting all kind of "social consciousness"(or should i say "social justice"?) projects that has crap all to do with writing good code. Projects that end up being a time and money sink for already small (compared to the various corporate entities they are competing with) orgs. If i was the conspiratorial kind i would wonder if they had been infiltrated. But more likely they are being "infected" by a "victim" culture that has been brewing in on college campuses for some time.