4 ms·

> iCloud backups can be secured so not even Apple can get in... I'm sure they are working on it, but it is nontrivial. There is no way they are working on this

by abalone 11y ago

> iCloud backups can be secured so not even Apple can get in... I'm sure they are working on it, but it is nontrivial. There is no way they are working on this. It is an intentional design decision that Apple offers an alternative way to recover your data if you lose your password. Or if you die without telling your next-of-kin your password. Most people do not actually want all of their family photos to self-destruct when they die because they didn't plan for their death "correctly". That would be a further tragedy for the family. (Most people don't even write wills and a court has to figure things out.) Making data self-destruct upon forgetting a password (or dying) is not a good default. It's definitely something people should be able to opt-in to in particular situations, but only when they understand the consequences. So it's great news that in iOS 9.3 the Notes app will let you encrypt specific notes with a key that only you know. But it's opt-in, not the default.

ohitsdom 11y ago
Has Apple even given access of someone's iCloud account to next-of-kin after they died? I've never heard of this, and I don't expect Apple to be responsible to preserve photos. You already can have shared photo streams, and there are many solutions for other data that could be potentially lost that don't involve Apple getting directly involved in these cases.
- fluxquanta 11y ago
  The idea of Apple (or some other big corporation) providing my protected personal data to my next-of-kin is more frightening than the idea that the government has the ability to spy on me while I'm alive. It's the most morbid kind of subliminal marketing that could possibly exist. "Hey, we're really sorry about fluxquanta's passing. Here is his private data which he may or may not have wanted you to see (but we'll just assume that he did). Aren't we such a caring company? Since we can no longer count on him to give us more money when our next product comes out, keep us and our incredibly kind gesture of digging through the skeleton closets of the dead in mind when shopping for your next device."
  - zeveb 11y ago
    That's pretty standard, though: once you no longer exist, all your private data, all your private money, all your private goods become part of your estate, to be disposed of by your executor according to your will.
    - fluxquanta 11y ago
      Things like money and personal physical property, sure, I understand that. But I feel like personal protected (encrypted) data should be treated differently. I'm thankful Google at least has options[0] available for their ecosystem, but I guess I'm going to need a will to cover the rest. [0]https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546?hl=en
      - djhn 11y ago
        Historical, pre-digital precedent: In the case of sudden death, there would not have been any way to securely dispose of any private "data". So your private information, diaries, works you purposefully didn't publish, unfinished manuscripts you abandoned - everything was handed down to your estate, and more often than not used against your intent. I'm not entirely clear whether your will could specify such disposal to be done, or could prohibit people from at least publishing these private notes and letters if not reading them, in any kind of binding and permanent way.
  - abalone 11y ago
    The thing is, you can opt in to destroy-when-I-die security. You can encrypt notes or use a zero-knowledge backup provider (backblaze offers this). But for most people that's the wrong default for things like decades of family photos. In absence of a will it would be terrible to assume that a person meant to have all their assets destroyed instead of handed down. It should be an explicit opt-in. The default should be, your stuff is recoverable and inheritable.
    - khedoros 11y ago
- abalone 11y ago
  Yes. http://www.cnet.com/news/widow-says-apple-told-her-to-get-court-order-to-secure-dead-husbands-password/ http://www.cnet.com/news/widow-says-apple-told-her-to-get-co... Shared photo streams are only a solution if they are used. Most people don't even write wills. If you fail to write a will should the state just burn all your assets, assuming that's what you meant? No, that's the wrong default. Burn-when-I-die should be opt-in for specific assets, not the default. And the good news is Apple is providing opt-in options like secure notes. Perhaps even backups too (3rd parties already do). But only after presenting the user with a big disclaimer informing them of the severe consequences of losing the password.

by abalone 11y ago

ohitsdom 11y ago

Has Apple even given access of someone's iCloud account to next-of-kin after they died? I've never heard of this, and I don't expect Apple to be responsible to preserve photos. You already can have shared photo streams, and there are many solutions for other data that could be potentially lost that don't involve Apple getting directly involved in these cases.

fluxquanta 11y ago
The idea of Apple (or some other big corporation) providing my protected personal data to my next-of-kin is more frightening than the idea that the government has the ability to spy on me while I'm alive. It's the most morbid kind of subliminal marketing that could possibly exist. "Hey, we're really sorry about fluxquanta's passing. Here is his private data which he may or may not have wanted you to see (but we'll just assume that he did). Aren't we such a caring company? Since we can no longer count on him to give us more money when our next product comes out, keep us and our incredibly kind gesture of digging through the skeleton closets of the dead in mind when shopping for your next device."
- zeveb 11y ago
  That's pretty standard, though: once you no longer exist, all your private data, all your private money, all your private goods become part of your estate, to be disposed of by your executor according to your will.
  - fluxquanta 11y ago
    Things like money and personal physical property, sure, I understand that. But I feel like personal protected (encrypted) data should be treated differently. I'm thankful Google at least has options[0] available for their ecosystem, but I guess I'm going to need a will to cover the rest. [0]https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546?hl=en https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546?hl=en
    - djhn 11y ago
      Historical, pre-digital precedent: In the case of sudden death, there would not have been any way to securely dispose of any private "data". So your private information, diaries, works you purposefully didn't publish, unfinished manuscripts you abandoned - everything was handed down to your estate, and more often than not used against your intent. I'm not entirely clear whether your will could specify such disposal to be done, or could prohibit people from at least publishing these private notes and letters if not reading them, in any kind of binding and permanent way.
- abalone 11y ago
  The thing is, you can opt in to destroy-when-I-die security. You can encrypt notes or use a zero-knowledge backup provider (backblaze offers this). But for most people that's the wrong default for things like decades of family photos. In absence of a will it would be terrible to assume that a person meant to have all their assets destroyed instead of handed down. It should be an explicit opt-in. The default should be, your stuff is recoverable and inheritable.
  - khedoros 11y ago
abalone 11y ago
Yes. http://www.cnet.com/news/widow-says-apple-told-her-to-get-court-order-to-secure-dead-husbands-password/ http://www.cnet.com/news/widow-says-apple-told-her-to-get-co... Shared photo streams are only a solution if they are used. Most people don't even write wills. If you fail to write a will should the state just burn all your assets, assuming that's what you meant? No, that's the wrong default. Burn-when-I-die should be opt-in for specific assets, not the default. And the good news is Apple is providing opt-in options like secure notes. Perhaps even backups too (3rd parties already do). But only after presenting the user with a big disclaimer informing them of the severe consequences of losing the password.