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Me too. I guess I figured astronauts must get risk pay. If you're an astronaut you have a sizable likelihood of dying on the job. Then again, this is probably

by craigds 11y ago

Me too. I guess I figured astronauts must get risk pay. If you're an astronaut you have a sizable likelihood of dying on the job. Then again, this is probably just supply and demand. Every kid growing up wants to be an astronaut, and very few get to.

ekianjo 11y ago
Astronauts fly very rarely though. Most of them are training for years and get very little chance to be actually sent to space.
- poof131 11y ago
  Sure. But when you do fly I’d say it’s pretty risky.[1] Even some of the training can kill you. Seems more risky than a typical desk job, but maybe that depends on how deadly boredom can be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_ac...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - delazeur 11y ago
    For context: 4 out 301 spaceflights have resulted in fatalities, or 18 out of 546 people who have been to space. 13 people have died in training, but I have not been able to find the total number of people who have trained as astronauts or cosmonauts. I suppose we would also have to account for health risks due to spaceflight: radiation exposure, accelerated aging, respiratory issues among Apollo astronauts due to lunar dust in their capsules, etc. It's certainly riskier than a desk job, but it still doesn't seem that risky to me. [1] fatalities in space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_ac... [2] number of spaceflights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights [3] number of people who have been to space: http://www.worldspaceflight.com/bios/stats.php http://www.worldspaceflight.com/bios/stats.php [4] accelerated astronaut aging: http://lemire.me/blog/2015/12/01/the-mysterious-aging-of-astronauts/ http://lemire.me/blog/2015/12/01/the-mysterious-aging-of-ast... [5] Apollo respiratory issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_health_effects_from_lunar_dust_exposure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_health_effects_from_lu...
    - twoodfin 11y ago
      Thanks for compiling the numbers. 18 "work"-related fatalities out of 546 "workers" represents a massive amount of risk over any widespread form of civilian employment. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, fishing is the riskiest job these days, with an annual fatality rate of around 12 per 10000. Even granting that safety has improved with experience and better engineering, I think it's safe to say that being an astronaut is at least 10x more dangerous than the most dangerous civilian job.
      - delazeur 11y ago
        You're right; when I say "not that risky" I'm comparing reality vs. perception of space flight more than reality of space flight vs. reality of dangerous civilian jobs. On the other hand, for an accurate comparison to BLS numbers I think we would need the total number of astronauts, not the number of spaceflight participants. As for safety improvements, 3 of the 4 fatal spaceflight accidents (and 11 of 18 deaths) occurred in relatively new vehicles. Only one of the accidents occurred in a tried-and-true vehicle, and the fatality count is inflated by the number of people NASA put on each shuttle.
  - Digit-Al 11y ago
    Swings and roundabouts. An astronaut has a greater risk of dying in an accident than most people, but the greater amount of fitness required increases the chances of living a long life if they don't have any accident. Conversely, there is much less of a risk of a fatal accident in a desk job - but long, stressful, hours combined with a bad diet and lack of exercise can massively increase the chance of dying early from heart disease or stroke.
poof131 11y ago
Astronauts aren’t doing it for the money. The government doesn’t pay it’s people well for risk. Contracting with the government is much more lucrative in this regards. Military can often pay less than $50k a year[1] to people taking a ton of risk when a contractor taking significantly less risk is making $1000 a day. This is one reason privatizing so much of the military is corrosive. http://www.militaryrates.com/military-pay-charts-e1_e5_2016 http://www.militaryrates.com/military-pay-charts-e1_e5_2016
- fapjacks 11y ago
  Yes, but that number goes up when you're getting shot at. Your point about contractors stands, though.
- falsestprophet 11y ago
  Like everything in life, it is a matter of supply and demand. At the height of the Iraq war, there was a suddenly increased demand for the services of private military contractors relative to their supply. Now, the demand is reduced and the market rate for private military contractor services is much less expensive.
- icebraining 11y ago
  Why is that corrosive? Increasing the cost of going to war sounds great to me.
  - bryondowd 11y ago
    It would be great, if that cost reigned in our willingness to go to war. However, it just provides even more incentive for all the people making money off it directly or indirectly to support the war.
- linkregister 11y ago
  Those pay charts obscure the near-match of base salary for Basic Assistance for Housing (untaxed!) and free medical, $300/mo grocery allowance, etc. That E-5 is earning comparably to $65k or so, depending on the locality.

by craigds 11y ago

ekianjo 11y ago

Astronauts fly very rarely though. Most of them are training for years and get very little chance to be actually sent to space.

poof131 11y ago
Sure. But when you do fly I’d say it’s pretty risky.[1] Even some of the training can kill you. Seems more risky than a typical desk job, but maybe that depends on how deadly boredom can be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_ac...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- delazeur 11y ago
  For context: 4 out 301 spaceflights have resulted in fatalities, or 18 out of 546 people who have been to space. 13 people have died in training, but I have not been able to find the total number of people who have trained as astronauts or cosmonauts. I suppose we would also have to account for health risks due to spaceflight: radiation exposure, accelerated aging, respiratory issues among Apollo astronauts due to lunar dust in their capsules, etc. It's certainly riskier than a desk job, but it still doesn't seem that risky to me. [1] fatalities in space: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_ac... [2] number of spaceflights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_spaceflights [3] number of people who have been to space: http://www.worldspaceflight.com/bios/stats.php http://www.worldspaceflight.com/bios/stats.php [4] accelerated astronaut aging: http://lemire.me/blog/2015/12/01/the-mysterious-aging-of-astronauts/ http://lemire.me/blog/2015/12/01/the-mysterious-aging-of-ast... [5] Apollo respiratory issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_health_effects_from_lunar_dust_exposure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_health_effects_from_lu...
  - twoodfin 11y ago
    Thanks for compiling the numbers. 18 "work"-related fatalities out of 546 "workers" represents a massive amount of risk over any widespread form of civilian employment. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, fishing is the riskiest job these days, with an annual fatality rate of around 12 per 10000. Even granting that safety has improved with experience and better engineering, I think it's safe to say that being an astronaut is at least 10x more dangerous than the most dangerous civilian job.
    - delazeur 11y ago
      You're right; when I say "not that risky" I'm comparing reality vs. perception of space flight more than reality of space flight vs. reality of dangerous civilian jobs. On the other hand, for an accurate comparison to BLS numbers I think we would need the total number of astronauts, not the number of spaceflight participants. As for safety improvements, 3 of the 4 fatal spaceflight accidents (and 11 of 18 deaths) occurred in relatively new vehicles. Only one of the accidents occurred in a tried-and-true vehicle, and the fatality count is inflated by the number of people NASA put on each shuttle.
- Digit-Al 11y ago
  Swings and roundabouts. An astronaut has a greater risk of dying in an accident than most people, but the greater amount of fitness required increases the chances of living a long life if they don't have any accident. Conversely, there is much less of a risk of a fatal accident in a desk job - but long, stressful, hours combined with a bad diet and lack of exercise can massively increase the chance of dying early from heart disease or stroke.

poof131 11y ago

Astronauts aren’t doing it for the money. The government doesn’t pay it’s people well for risk. Contracting with the government is much more lucrative in this regards. Military can often pay less than $50k a year[1] to people taking a ton of risk when a contractor taking significantly less risk is making $1000 a day. This is one reason privatizing so much of the military is corrosive. http://www.militaryrates.com/military-pay-charts-e1_e5_2016 http://www.militaryrates.com/military-pay-charts-e1_e5_2016

fapjacks 11y ago
Yes, but that number goes up when you're getting shot at. Your point about contractors stands, though.
falsestprophet 11y ago
Like everything in life, it is a matter of supply and demand. At the height of the Iraq war, there was a suddenly increased demand for the services of private military contractors relative to their supply. Now, the demand is reduced and the market rate for private military contractor services is much less expensive.
icebraining 11y ago
Why is that corrosive? Increasing the cost of going to war sounds great to me.
- bryondowd 11y ago
  It would be great, if that cost reigned in our willingness to go to war. However, it just provides even more incentive for all the people making money off it directly or indirectly to support the war.
linkregister 11y ago
Those pay charts obscure the near-match of base salary for Basic Assistance for Housing (untaxed!) and free medical, $300/mo grocery allowance, etc. That E-5 is earning comparably to $65k or so, depending on the locality.