5 ms·

What good does local sourcing do? Is it freshness? I'm not a meat expert, but I would guess that a big company with an economy of scale would be able to produce

by garply 17y ago

What good does local sourcing do? Is it freshness? I'm not a meat expert, but I would guess that a big company with an economy of scale would be able to produce higher quality meat for a lower cost. Also, if you're sourcing locally from non-big brand names, don't you have concerns about their cold chain?

ErrantX 17y ago
You'd think so. But I have found you get better quality for very little premium. And even the cheap stuff is better than supermarket schmuck. My aunt rears poultry for several markets. Her supermarket produce is usually additionally processed in a variety of ways by an intermediate to increase it's sale value (with poultry it is usually water plumped). It might take a while but there is sure to be a local butcher or farm shop nearby where you can buy more directly. Edit: also I personally don't think meat is a Market that benefits from economy of scale :-) I usually find supermarkets a false economy.
- garply 17y ago
  I had no idea about plumping. Do you know what percent of the revenue her supermarkets take?
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    Not sure but it's a fair whack. She makes a little more on direct & local sales but mostly that is because she also gets some of the retail markup too (which the supermarkets soak up). EDIT: here is some info on plumping. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/all-we-can-eat/food-politics/-plumped-imposters-at-the.html http://voices.washingtonpost.com/all-we-can-eat/food-politic... My Aunt's produce isn't modified all that much (because it is marketed as premium and local produce by the supermarket - they buy from numerous small producers in local regions and distribute to that region). However most of the generic chicken you see in stores will be plumped in this way. Im not sure of the exact water content but I recall watching a TV show once about it that suggested 70% water content (including what was already there)
    - garply 17y ago
      The bakeries here usually blend their cheesecakes (which are sold by weight) with flour to boost their margins. This sounds like exactly the same sort of process. I wonder how frequent this is in the food industry.
      - pmjordan 17y ago
        It's done with bacon, too. This is why you'll find that cheap bacon, when fried, will expel a lot of water, whereas the more expensive stuff won't. This is probably more noticeable on back bacon ("Canadian" bacon) - I can't imagine the fatty parts hold the water for long enough.
    - Silhouette 17y ago
      I don't know the situation elsewhere, but something that surprised me here in the UK is the disclosure requirements. We have a lot of rules on describing ingredients and nutrition in food, some statutory, others widely accepted industrial practices. However, even the statutory rules let food suppliers "forget" certain things, like IIRC up to 10% of added water in meat products. In other words, they can legally say "no added water" with anything up to 10% added, or reduce greater actual amounts accordingly. I'm not sure I see any public interest in that kind of rule, unless it really is an essential part of the production process that literally everyone (including the local butcher with a local supplier competing with the supermarkets) is going to have to do.
dzlobin 17y ago
Locally sourced meat tends to be grass-fed or at least grass finished. It also tends to have WAY better living conditions than any commercial plant. A happy animal is a tasty animal. I highly suggest you watch Food inc. :-)
- ars 17y ago
  What if I live near a "commercial" plant, so it's local to me? Local is nonsense. If you want grass finished say so. Don't say local. And calling it commercial is misleading too, since grass finished is also commercial.
  - ecuzzillo 17y ago
    Empirically, Giant Eagle (the crap chain supermarket in PA) beef tastes like crap, and local butcher beef tastes really good. Locality is a good proxy for people caring about food tasting good, and for not going through enormous horrible disease-ridden meat-packing plants. The latter tends to produce meat that tastes bad and periodically makes you sick.
    - wooster 17y ago
      AFAIK, there are only 4 cattle slaughterhouses in PA: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/downloads/slaughter_list.pdf http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/downloads/slaughter_... Only one of the 4 is not owned by Cargill or JBS. Unless your beef vendor is taking delivery on whole carcasses and then packing it themselves, the beef is probably packed at the slaughterhouse, as well.
      - ecuzzillo 17y ago
        Heh. The local butcher whose very happy meat I ate actually was in the Ferry Plaza in SF. But really, I don't know if the goodness in non-Giant-Eagle meat has anything to do with the meat packing industry. I just was trying to convince ars that food people aren't being totally dumb when they say that local is often better than GEagle equivalents.
illumin8 17y ago
If you buy local you're much more likely to get beef that is grass fed, and not factory farm raised beef that is fed corn and lives in their own filth. You know in order to kill bacteria in ground beef, they actually use an ammonia bath, and they can only guarantee it will kill 99% of the bacteria? Somehow, the FDA thinks this is safe. What's the harm in 1% E. Cohli, after all? Watch a documentary called Food, Inc. and become enlightened.

by garply 17y ago

ErrantX 17y ago

You'd think so. But I have found you get better quality for very little premium. And even the cheap stuff is better than supermarket schmuck. My aunt rears poultry for several markets. Her supermarket produce is usually additionally processed in a variety of ways by an intermediate to increase it's sale value (with poultry it is usually water plumped). It might take a while but there is sure to be a local butcher or farm shop nearby where you can buy more directly. Edit: also I personally don't think meat is a Market that benefits from economy of scale :-) I usually find supermarkets a false economy.

garply 17y ago
I had no idea about plumping. Do you know what percent of the revenue her supermarkets take?
- ErrantX 17y ago
  Not sure but it's a fair whack. She makes a little more on direct & local sales but mostly that is because she also gets some of the retail markup too (which the supermarkets soak up). EDIT: here is some info on plumping. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/all-we-can-eat/food-politics/-plumped-imposters-at-the.html http://voices.washingtonpost.com/all-we-can-eat/food-politic... My Aunt's produce isn't modified all that much (because it is marketed as premium and local produce by the supermarket - they buy from numerous small producers in local regions and distribute to that region). However most of the generic chicken you see in stores will be plumped in this way. Im not sure of the exact water content but I recall watching a TV show once about it that suggested 70% water content (including what was already there)
  - garply 17y ago
    The bakeries here usually blend their cheesecakes (which are sold by weight) with flour to boost their margins. This sounds like exactly the same sort of process. I wonder how frequent this is in the food industry.
    - pmjordan 17y ago
      It's done with bacon, too. This is why you'll find that cheap bacon, when fried, will expel a lot of water, whereas the more expensive stuff won't. This is probably more noticeable on back bacon ("Canadian" bacon) - I can't imagine the fatty parts hold the water for long enough.
  - Silhouette 17y ago
    I don't know the situation elsewhere, but something that surprised me here in the UK is the disclosure requirements. We have a lot of rules on describing ingredients and nutrition in food, some statutory, others widely accepted industrial practices. However, even the statutory rules let food suppliers "forget" certain things, like IIRC up to 10% of added water in meat products. In other words, they can legally say "no added water" with anything up to 10% added, or reduce greater actual amounts accordingly. I'm not sure I see any public interest in that kind of rule, unless it really is an essential part of the production process that literally everyone (including the local butcher with a local supplier competing with the supermarkets) is going to have to do.

dzlobin 17y ago

Locally sourced meat tends to be grass-fed or at least grass finished. It also tends to have WAY better living conditions than any commercial plant. A happy animal is a tasty animal. I highly suggest you watch Food inc. :-)

ars 17y ago
What if I live near a "commercial" plant, so it's local to me? Local is nonsense. If you want grass finished say so. Don't say local. And calling it commercial is misleading too, since grass finished is also commercial.
- ecuzzillo 17y ago
  Empirically, Giant Eagle (the crap chain supermarket in PA) beef tastes like crap, and local butcher beef tastes really good. Locality is a good proxy for people caring about food tasting good, and for not going through enormous horrible disease-ridden meat-packing plants. The latter tends to produce meat that tastes bad and periodically makes you sick.
  - wooster 17y ago
    AFAIK, there are only 4 cattle slaughterhouses in PA: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/downloads/slaughter_list.pdf http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/downloads/slaughter_... Only one of the 4 is not owned by Cargill or JBS. Unless your beef vendor is taking delivery on whole carcasses and then packing it themselves, the beef is probably packed at the slaughterhouse, as well.
    - ecuzzillo 17y ago
      Heh. The local butcher whose very happy meat I ate actually was in the Ferry Plaza in SF. But really, I don't know if the goodness in non-Giant-Eagle meat has anything to do with the meat packing industry. I just was trying to convince ars that food people aren't being totally dumb when they say that local is often better than GEagle equivalents.

illumin8 17y ago

If you buy local you're much more likely to get beef that is grass fed, and not factory farm raised beef that is fed corn and lives in their own filth. You know in order to kill bacteria in ground beef, they actually use an ammonia bath, and they can only guarantee it will kill 99% of the bacteria? Somehow, the FDA thinks this is safe. What's the harm in 1% E. Cohli, after all? Watch a documentary called Food, Inc. and become enlightened.