7 ms·

Don't they just need to tell people to switch away from 4 or 6 digit pins and use longer passwords?

by jarcoal 11y ago

trowawee 11y ago
I wish Apple would start pushing passphrases. Easy enough to remember, plenty strong, already usable with the current system on iphones.
- rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
  Nobody would adopt them. It's annoying enough to deal with 4 digits when it's cold and I'm wearing gloves and I just want to change the song I'm listening to. Passphrases suck enough whenever you have to log back in. Are people really gonna put up with that every time they want to use their phone? On the other hand, if there were a convenient way to toggle between passphrases and 4-digit unlock, (especially if you had to use the passphrases to toggle back to 4-digit) then I would be all for it.
  - plorkyeran 11y ago
    I'd love to have a long passphrase that has to be entered after booting and every 48 hours, and then a 4-digit pin that's usable when TouchID is for when I'm unlocking my phone with my nose.
    - trustfundbaby 11y ago
      clearly you're not the average user.
    - shawn-furyan 11y ago
      Exactly. Short passwords/longish pins suffice for short durations if they are random (i.e. not guessable), particularly if the device requires external hardware to brute force due to attempt duration scaling. I currently use a generated long password on my Android phone and have adapted to the extra work, but having the option to enter a password once a day and a pin or shorter password throughout that day would be a welcome convenience option, and it's not really significantly more onerous than just a pin.
  - agripa2 11y ago
    Can't songs just be changed from the lockscreen (i.e., no unlocking needed)? Either way, your point still stands...
  - dheera 11y ago
    Not really. Have the option to set both a long passphrase and a PIN code. The long passphrase is used to mount the encrypted file system upon startup, and the PIN code is used merely as a "screen lock", as a casual deterrent from your friends and casual thieves from swiping through your photos before you can catch them. The file system can be automatically unmounted after a set period of inactivity, or if the user wants to unmount it on demand. After the file system is unmounted, the data is secure again and the long passphrase will once again be needed before anything can be done with the phone.
- spullara 11y ago
  maybe if i only needed to use it on boot or daily. inputing a long passphrase is pretty onerous to do all the time.
- aioprisan 11y ago
  They already do, on phone bootup. You can use the fingerprint the rest of the time instead.
- superuser2 11y ago
  A secure passphrase requirement would kill Apple overnight. Low-friction UI has been Apple's differentiator for years. If you have to take the time to type out a secure passphrase every time you want to interact with your phone, people will stop interacting with their phones (or use phones that suck less). Why do you think they built Touch ID? Because typing even a 4-digit PIN is too annoying!
jedberg 11y ago
Does anyone know if it re-encryptes the data after I change my passphrase? In other words, am I immediately more secure if I switch from a 6 digit pin to a passphrase?
- ikeboy 11y ago
  Short answer: yes. Longer answer: There's a key that encrypts the actual data, and that key is stored on disk, but encrypted with your passcode along with a hardware key. The hardware key cannot be read, only used to decrypt. Changing your code just changes the key stored to disk, but not the encryption key, so it's quick, but preserves security. Longest and most accurate answer: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf from page 10.
  - jedberg 11y ago
    Awesome thanks! Exactly what I was looking for.
mtgx 11y ago
Yes, they could just remove the PIN authentication method, and I hope they do. Because then it would leave DoJ to argue for something even more extreme than they are now.
- tomschlick 11y ago
  Or just burn in the auto wipe functionality so it can't be disabled by a software update unless you have the correct password.
zaroth 11y ago
On my wish list is for the iPhone to effectively support multiple concurrent users. You login with your simple PIN for most cases or when the kids are using it, and you can login with a passphrase and are now working on a completely separate partition, with its own apps, settings, Apple ID, etc. I guess they could even support TouchID in this case as long as you enroll different fingers for each.

Don't they just need to tell people to switch away from 4 or 6 digit pins and use longer passwords?

by jarcoal 11y ago

Don't they just need to tell people to switch away from 4 or 6 digit pins and use longer passwords?

I wish Apple would start pushing passphrases. Easy enough to remember, plenty strong, already usable with the current system on iphones.

rm_-rf_slash 11y ago
Nobody would adopt them. It's annoying enough to deal with 4 digits when it's cold and I'm wearing gloves and I just want to change the song I'm listening to. Passphrases suck enough whenever you have to log back in. Are people really gonna put up with that every time they want to use their phone? On the other hand, if there were a convenient way to toggle between passphrases and 4-digit unlock, (especially if you had to use the passphrases to toggle back to 4-digit) then I would be all for it.
- plorkyeran 11y ago
  I'd love to have a long passphrase that has to be entered after booting and every 48 hours, and then a 4-digit pin that's usable when TouchID is for when I'm unlocking my phone with my nose.
  - trustfundbaby 11y ago
    clearly you're not the average user.
  - shawn-furyan 11y ago
    Exactly. Short passwords/longish pins suffice for short durations if they are random (i.e. not guessable), particularly if the device requires external hardware to brute force due to attempt duration scaling. I currently use a generated long password on my Android phone and have adapted to the extra work, but having the option to enter a password once a day and a pin or shorter password throughout that day would be a welcome convenience option, and it's not really significantly more onerous than just a pin.
- agripa2 11y ago
  Can't songs just be changed from the lockscreen (i.e., no unlocking needed)? Either way, your point still stands...
- dheera 11y ago
  Not really. Have the option to set both a long passphrase and a PIN code. The long passphrase is used to mount the encrypted file system upon startup, and the PIN code is used merely as a "screen lock", as a casual deterrent from your friends and casual thieves from swiping through your photos before you can catch them. The file system can be automatically unmounted after a set period of inactivity, or if the user wants to unmount it on demand. After the file system is unmounted, the data is secure again and the long passphrase will once again be needed before anything can be done with the phone.
spullara 11y ago
maybe if i only needed to use it on boot or daily. inputing a long passphrase is pretty onerous to do all the time.
aioprisan 11y ago
They already do, on phone bootup. You can use the fingerprint the rest of the time instead.
superuser2 11y ago
A secure passphrase requirement would kill Apple overnight. Low-friction UI has been Apple's differentiator for years. If you have to take the time to type out a secure passphrase every time you want to interact with your phone, people will stop interacting with their phones (or use phones that suck less). Why do you think they built Touch ID? Because typing even a 4-digit PIN is too annoying!

jedberg 11y ago

Does anyone know if it re-encryptes the data after I change my passphrase? In other words, am I immediately more secure if I switch from a 6 digit pin to a passphrase?

ikeboy 11y ago
Short answer: yes. Longer answer: There's a key that encrypts the actual data, and that key is stored on disk, but encrypted with your passcode along with a hardware key. The hardware key cannot be read, only used to decrypt. Changing your code just changes the key stored to disk, but not the encryption key, so it's quick, but preserves security. Longest and most accurate answer: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf from page 10.
- jedberg 11y ago
  Awesome thanks! Exactly what I was looking for.

mtgx 11y ago

Yes, they could just remove the PIN authentication method, and I hope they do. Because then it would leave DoJ to argue for something even more extreme than they are now.

tomschlick 11y ago
Or just burn in the auto wipe functionality so it can't be disabled by a software update unless you have the correct password.

zaroth 11y ago

On my wish list is for the iPhone to effectively support multiple concurrent users. You login with your simple PIN for most cases or when the kids are using it, and you can login with a passphrase and are now working on a completely separate partition, with its own apps, settings, Apple ID, etc. I guess they could even support TouchID in this case as long as you enroll different fingers for each.