5 ms·

"You Need a Co-Founder, Not an Engineering Bitch..."

80 points by MediaSquirrel 17y ago

ciscoriordan 17y ago
I like the juxtaposition of "You need a Co-Founder, not an Engineering Bitch" and "Recruit college kids. They're young, hungry and don't need of a living wage."
- hga 17y ago
  Heh, but a few items later is "Treat everyone you hire like a co-founder." So overall he's saying "You don't need any [fill in the blank] Bitch." (And it's implied that the Engineering Non-Bitch is experienced.) To echo others, this is an exceptionally good version of the standard "I've been there" startup advice.
- MediaSquirrel 17y ago
  The point is that college kids have a lower built-in cost structure to their lives, making them ideal workers in a poorly capitalized startup. But regardless of who you hire, treat people well. It's not about money, it's about being honest and respectful and acting with integrity. Good people may work for shit wages, but they won't work for shit people who pay them shit wages. Life is just too short. Create a company culture that has some moral character.
  - earl 17y ago
    Oh hey, I didn't realize the blogger is you -- you should put a link on your profile or make it obvious. But cheers for treating people with respect. I wish more people ran their lives that way.
MediaSquirrel 17y ago
I hope people find this useful.
- david927 17y ago
  I rarely look at startup advice; I've been inured to it after so long. But this was good. Very good. Thanks.
- DaniFong 17y ago
  Hey, this is a really good post! Also your startup is really cool. If you want to improve conversions, make sure the speaker text homepage says something really specific about what you do. Something like "With SpeakerText, clicking on a transcript zips you to the right time in a YouTube video!" It wasn't obvious that this was what you did when I looked at it.
  - MediaSquirrel 17y ago
    Yep. Our site kind of sucks right now. We def need to improve it.
nostrademons 17y ago
Caveat on the "hire college students": You need at least someone on the engineering team that's experienced and has seen all the ways that large systems can go terribly, horribly wrong. Ideally that'll be one of the founders, because you'll have a tough time convincing someone experienced to join otherwise. But occasionally someone loves the product idea enough to commit. Otherwise, a team of inexperienced college students is very likely to build a large system that goes terribly, horribly wrong. They know enough to write code, but not enough to avoid writing code, and certainly not enough to know when to trade off the quick hack for the elegant system. I know because I was once that undergrad making a mess of things. I'm lucky; I've been able to work with some people who are very, very accomplished. But the time I spent floundering around on my own in college could probably have been easily avoided had I been working with someone who's been there and done that.
- cookiecaper 17y ago
  This is good advice. I once worked under a kid just out of college -- he had connections to the big bosses -- and while he was smart and good for the amount of experience he'd had, the system got really, really messed up under his naive direction. I quit out of frustration. It's important to respect experience and ascribe proper placement to it in your organization. You want someone seasoned calling the shots, not a relative "newbie". People from college have a lot of theory and homework pumped into their heads, and that's fine for what it is, but your systems are much better directed with the pragmatism and practicality incident of significant real-world experience.
  - MediaSquirrel 17y ago
    Well, it depends. The college kid we hired had been coding since age 13, had passed up Harvard for a free ride at a lesser name regional school, and had interned for IBM & Lockheed Martin before. Dude serious had his shit together. That said, my co-founder is 33 and had previous startup experience.
- shin_lao 17y ago
  I agree. I'll go even further: hire only experienced people at the beginning, so that they can mentor college kids when you hire them (fresh new blood is always a nice addition). If you can't convince experienced people to come on board, something is wrong with your project.
ubu 17y ago
YC sounds alot like the c-founder type you describe. it doesn't look that way with all the hype but think about it... ( like a good engineer) would google founders have fallen for YC's offer?
- smanek 17y ago
  Yeah, except YC takes ~5% while the annoying business c-founder type take ~80%. And I'd argue YC even provides considerably more value than most 'business' co-founders.
  - ubu 17y ago
    it's not about the % YC or any venture capital. it's about your judgment of what's added to your startups value. of all the startups applying, being select etc a few become hits. the question is how much of it was do to the founders and the work they put in, how much with the idea and how much with SPECIFIC things that YC brings in. Not the hype. Also can it be brought in otherwise and would it have become a sucess without YC. I would ask the same thing about veture capital. sure it feels good when someone hands you lots of $$$$ and say here work on your idea but I wouldn't take it if it's not going to be usefull or need. if you think about its kind of ironic because YC understands this and so gives only few dollars to start. it realy isn't needed at that stage but then neither is YC. by the way if I had even 1% of google I'd be so rich :)
    - dpritchett 17y ago
      From pg: "Financially, a startup is like a pass/fail course. The way to get rich from a startup is to maximize the company's chances of succeeding, not to maximize the amount of stock you retain. So if you can trade stock for something that improves your odds, it's probably a smart move." [1] If your startup succeeds, you've got more time and money to start another one and either retain more stock or raise the value of the stock you keep next time around. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html
      - 17y ago
chris123 17y ago
Interesting comp structure ("iPhone Payment Plan").
torpor 17y ago
I was a co-founder for a major ISP in the 90's, but got treated like the Engineering-Bitch instead of as an equal, so I left .. within a year, the guy I started the company with was worth millions, and I was still churning through startup after startup .. okay, I escaped with my own integrity intact (avoided having to deal with a later Federal investigation into the investors of the company) but there is a lesson to be learned: If you're a tech guy, always get the ducks in a row when you have to do business with an entrepreneur whose primary purpose is to make themselves rich at the expense of others ..
- FreeRadical 17y ago
  Can you clarify what you mean by 'get the ducks in a row' please? It's not a term I'm familiar with.
  - csbrooks 17y ago
    I can't answer to what the parent post specifically means here by it, but it just means "get everything in order". Pay attention to the details, plan for different possibilities, think through what might happen. That sort of thing.
vaksel 17y ago
seems like you just merged the apocalypse startup posts into 1 big one.
- MediaSquirrel 17y ago
  Not exactly. I did merge them, but then added some more stuff and did some editing.
fnid2 17y ago
It's a disservice to the article to retitle the post from the author's original. This is the best advice: "Tenacity is impressive." Just keep at it and keep doing stuff and eventually, you'll be on your own with money coming in and that's what matters. Creating work is hard. Doing work is easy. Your job as an entrepreneur is to create enough work that you can pay yourself and others. If you've never started a company and you're earning $60k a year, it's not hard to forget that someone is taking $60k out of their pocket and giving it to you which means someone else is too and as an individual on your own, it's hard to convince people to give you $60k a year for stuff you do.
MediaSquirrel 17y ago
Hmm. Why didn't this make it into the HN Twitter feed??

80 points by MediaSquirrel 17y ago

I like the juxtaposition of "You need a Co-Founder, not an Engineering Bitch" and "Recruit college kids. They're young, hungry and don't need of a living wage."

hga 17y ago
Heh, but a few items later is "Treat everyone you hire like a co-founder." So overall he's saying "You don't need any [fill in the blank] Bitch." (And it's implied that the Engineering Non-Bitch is experienced.) To echo others, this is an exceptionally good version of the standard "I've been there" startup advice.
MediaSquirrel 17y ago
The point is that college kids have a lower built-in cost structure to their lives, making them ideal workers in a poorly capitalized startup. But regardless of who you hire, treat people well. It's not about money, it's about being honest and respectful and acting with integrity. Good people may work for shit wages, but they won't work for shit people who pay them shit wages. Life is just too short. Create a company culture that has some moral character.
- earl 17y ago
  Oh hey, I didn't realize the blogger is you -- you should put a link on your profile or make it obvious. But cheers for treating people with respect. I wish more people ran their lives that way.

MediaSquirrel 17y ago

I hope people find this useful.

david927 17y ago
I rarely look at startup advice; I've been inured to it after so long. But this was good. Very good. Thanks.
DaniFong 17y ago
Hey, this is a really good post! Also your startup is really cool. If you want to improve conversions, make sure the speaker text homepage says something really specific about what you do. Something like "With SpeakerText, clicking on a transcript zips you to the right time in a YouTube video!" It wasn't obvious that this was what you did when I looked at it.
- MediaSquirrel 17y ago
  Yep. Our site kind of sucks right now. We def need to improve it.

nostrademons 17y ago

Caveat on the "hire college students": You need at least someone on the engineering team that's experienced and has seen all the ways that large systems can go terribly, horribly wrong. Ideally that'll be one of the founders, because you'll have a tough time convincing someone experienced to join otherwise. But occasionally someone loves the product idea enough to commit. Otherwise, a team of inexperienced college students is very likely to build a large system that goes terribly, horribly wrong. They know enough to write code, but not enough to avoid writing code, and certainly not enough to know when to trade off the quick hack for the elegant system. I know because I was once that undergrad making a mess of things. I'm lucky; I've been able to work with some people who are very, very accomplished. But the time I spent floundering around on my own in college could probably have been easily avoided had I been working with someone who's been there and done that.

cookiecaper 17y ago
This is good advice. I once worked under a kid just out of college -- he had connections to the big bosses -- and while he was smart and good for the amount of experience he'd had, the system got really, really messed up under his naive direction. I quit out of frustration. It's important to respect experience and ascribe proper placement to it in your organization. You want someone seasoned calling the shots, not a relative "newbie". People from college have a lot of theory and homework pumped into their heads, and that's fine for what it is, but your systems are much better directed with the pragmatism and practicality incident of significant real-world experience.
- MediaSquirrel 17y ago
  Well, it depends. The college kid we hired had been coding since age 13, had passed up Harvard for a free ride at a lesser name regional school, and had interned for IBM & Lockheed Martin before. Dude serious had his shit together. That said, my co-founder is 33 and had previous startup experience.
shin_lao 17y ago
I agree. I'll go even further: hire only experienced people at the beginning, so that they can mentor college kids when you hire them (fresh new blood is always a nice addition). If you can't convince experienced people to come on board, something is wrong with your project.

ubu 17y ago

YC sounds alot like the c-founder type you describe. it doesn't look that way with all the hype but think about it... ( like a good engineer) would google founders have fallen for YC's offer?

smanek 17y ago
Yeah, except YC takes ~5% while the annoying business c-founder type take ~80%. And I'd argue YC even provides considerably more value than most 'business' co-founders.
- ubu 17y ago
  it's not about the % YC or any venture capital. it's about your judgment of what's added to your startups value. of all the startups applying, being select etc a few become hits. the question is how much of it was do to the founders and the work they put in, how much with the idea and how much with SPECIFIC things that YC brings in. Not the hype. Also can it be brought in otherwise and would it have become a sucess without YC. I would ask the same thing about veture capital. sure it feels good when someone hands you lots of $$$$ and say here work on your idea but I wouldn't take it if it's not going to be usefull or need. if you think about its kind of ironic because YC understands this and so gives only few dollars to start. it realy isn't needed at that stage but then neither is YC. by the way if I had even 1% of google I'd be so rich :)
  - dpritchett 17y ago
    From pg: "Financially, a startup is like a pass/fail course. The way to get rich from a startup is to maximize the company's chances of succeeding, not to maximize the amount of stock you retain. So if you can trade stock for something that improves your odds, it's probably a smart move." [1] If your startup succeeds, you've got more time and money to start another one and either retain more stock or raise the value of the stock you keep next time around. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html
    - 17y ago

chris123 17y ago

Interesting comp structure ("iPhone Payment Plan").

torpor 17y ago

I was a co-founder for a major ISP in the 90's, but got treated like the Engineering-Bitch instead of as an equal, so I left .. within a year, the guy I started the company with was worth millions, and I was still churning through startup after startup .. okay, I escaped with my own integrity intact (avoided having to deal with a later Federal investigation into the investors of the company) but there is a lesson to be learned: If you're a tech guy, always get the ducks in a row when you have to do business with an entrepreneur whose primary purpose is to make themselves rich at the expense of others ..

FreeRadical 17y ago
Can you clarify what you mean by 'get the ducks in a row' please? It's not a term I'm familiar with.
- csbrooks 17y ago
  I can't answer to what the parent post specifically means here by it, but it just means "get everything in order". Pay attention to the details, plan for different possibilities, think through what might happen. That sort of thing.

vaksel 17y ago

seems like you just merged the apocalypse startup posts into 1 big one.

MediaSquirrel 17y ago
Not exactly. I did merge them, but then added some more stuff and did some editing.

fnid2 17y ago

It's a disservice to the article to retitle the post from the author's original. This is the best advice: "Tenacity is impressive." Just keep at it and keep doing stuff and eventually, you'll be on your own with money coming in and that's what matters. Creating work is hard. Doing work is easy. Your job as an entrepreneur is to create enough work that you can pay yourself and others. If you've never started a company and you're earning $60k a year, it's not hard to forget that someone is taking $60k out of their pocket and giving it to you which means someone else is too and as an individual on your own, it's hard to convince people to give you $60k a year for stuff you do.

MediaSquirrel 17y ago

Hmm. Why didn't this make it into the HN Twitter feed??