3 ms·

Switzerland is an example of direct democracy that works just fine. There is also the idea of an Athenian democracy which I also support. At the end of the day

by x5n1 11y ago

Switzerland is an example of direct democracy that works just fine. There is also the idea of an Athenian democracy which I also support. At the end of the day the representative democracy has similar problems, where the representatives represent those people funding them. Don't even bother reading the legislation they are passing. and so on.

AnthonyMouse 11y ago
There is direct democracy and then there is the ability to have a referendum. Switzerland has a legislature. And about 20% of the population of California, where referendums have been nothing but trouble. The place where direct democracy works great is to give the public the ability to repeal laws.
- ScottBurson 11y ago
  I think the big problem with the initiative system in California is that an initiative constitutional amendment needs only a bare majority to pass. While I believe the people should be able to amend the constitution, I think it should require a supermajority of at least 60%. That would mean the vast majority of initiatives would be statutes, which could in principle be subsequently amended or overridden by the legislature. Of course, the legislature would presumably be reluctant to modify a popular initiative without a very good reason, as there would be a political cost to doing so, but at least it would be possible.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > That would mean the vast majority of initiatives would be statutes, which could in principle be subsequently amended or overridden by the legislature. No, they couldn't. The power of the legislature to legislate is a delegated power from the citizenry, and, based on that principle, initiative statutes cannot be repealed or modified by the legislature (the legislature can send a measure to the voters amending them), unless the initiative statue itself expressly waives this protection.
    - ScottBurson 11y ago
      Okay, but as long as we're talking about changing the initiative system, that could be changed too (in principle, of course -- I understand well how unlikely these proposals are to fly politically).

by x5n1 11y ago

AnthonyMouse 11y ago

There is direct democracy and then there is the ability to have a referendum. Switzerland has a legislature. And about 20% of the population of California, where referendums have been nothing but trouble. The place where direct democracy works great is to give the public the ability to repeal laws.

ScottBurson 11y ago
I think the big problem with the initiative system in California is that an initiative constitutional amendment needs only a bare majority to pass. While I believe the people should be able to amend the constitution, I think it should require a supermajority of at least 60%. That would mean the vast majority of initiatives would be statutes, which could in principle be subsequently amended or overridden by the legislature. Of course, the legislature would presumably be reluctant to modify a popular initiative without a very good reason, as there would be a political cost to doing so, but at least it would be possible.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > That would mean the vast majority of initiatives would be statutes, which could in principle be subsequently amended or overridden by the legislature. No, they couldn't. The power of the legislature to legislate is a delegated power from the citizenry, and, based on that principle, initiative statutes cannot be repealed or modified by the legislature (the legislature can send a measure to the voters amending them), unless the initiative statue itself expressly waives this protection.
  - ScottBurson 11y ago
    Okay, but as long as we're talking about changing the initiative system, that could be changed too (in principle, of course -- I understand well how unlikely these proposals are to fly politically).