6 ms·

I was shocked and very worried when ads for Microsoft Office started popping up in the Action Center (10's centralized notification area) last year. When I wrot

I was shocked and very worried when ads for Microsoft Office started popping up in the Action Center (10's centralized notification area) last year. When I wrote about my concerns on a Windows forum, most pf the responses were along the lines of, "why are you complaining, Windows 10 is free." If people no longer feel that they own their operating systems, then there is no check on Microsoft's behavior. Inevitably, ads will become personalized and telemetry that Microsoft now uses to improve the operating system will be used to improve ads. The challenges to privacy that we currently experience online will expand to the desktop.

RealCasually 11y ago
What is the harm done? Of course you don't "own" your operating system. You also paid nothing for it. I also struggle to grasp the double standard of why Google, Facebook, et al are able to endlessly track and personalize ads, but when Microsoft follows a similar model, there is outrage.
- gargravarr 11y ago
  The argument that Win10 is free won't hold for much longer, it's only 'free' if you upgrade from Win7 or 8. It's already being sold retail in stores for a similar price to the old versions. And from later this year, people will have to pay for upgrades too. On the flipside, you don't "own" your software anyway, you own a license to use it (EULA). The double-standard probably has something to do with the ability to block most of Google's ads and tracking, or use another search platform if you really want. This is the OS on top of which you'll be using all of your other software (web platforms included), and it's impossible to control what is going on in the background.
  - seanp2k2 11y ago
    While I agree with the difference, it should still be possible to block these types of ads with some kind of firewall. Unless the OS is blocking the blocking at a lower level (which I'd be VERY surprised by), something like Privoxy and using that as the system proxy for http[s] should be able to knock these out if they're loaded dynamically. I haven't tested this, so it would require some inspection and network monitoring to figure out what's serving these. Some hosts file entries may even be enough.
    - opnitro 11y ago
      I think that's different because you are subverted the OS's attempts to advertise to you. Most people are not willing to go to this level. Changing search engines is not subverting Google, it's just not using their product.
- 0x0 11y ago
  Just paid $119 here for a windows 10 license. Do you know of a better deal - for hardware that never shipped with a (subsidized) windows license? http://www.microsoftstore.com/store?Action=DisplayPage&Locale=en_US&SiteID=msusa&id=ThreePgCheckoutShoppingCartPage http://www.microsoftstore.com/store?Action=DisplayPage&Local...
  - NamTaf 11y ago
    Reddit has a pretty robust sale of windows licenses for $15-25 and then you can upgrade them from 7 to 10 if you want to go cheaper. edit: I don't necessarily know about their legitimacy, and I've never used them myself.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  > You also paid nothing for it. Windows requires payment, just not in dollars. The data gathered from "telemetry" (spyware) is valuable. edit: I'll assume from the downvotes that some people want to pretend that pattern-of-life data isn't valuable
  - wongarsu 11y ago
    > I'll assume from the downvotes that some people want to pretend that pattern-of-life data isn't valuable I'm pretty sure it's from people who either payed for Windows and just got a free upgrade, or who directly bought Windows 10. Computers with "free" Windows obviously also have the price of Windows factored in. The closest you get to free Windows is with Dreamspark (their MINT student program), and even that costs money for the university.
    - pdkl95 11y ago
      Like many in posts in this thread, the "free" I was replying is the Win10 upgrade. Unlike previous upgrades that cost money, many people instead had to pay for that upgrade in data. Obviously Windows is sold in other forms, and new pre-built computers still have a Windows Tax.
- bendykstra 11y ago
  I expect to own my operating system in the same way that a tenant owns the interior of building. The landlord cannot walk into the home uninvited. The landlord cannot install cameras or listening devices in the home. As Justice Roberts said in Riley v. California (which also applies to computers, surely), "Modern cell phones are not just another technological convenience. With all they contain and all they may reveal, they hold for many Americans 'the privacies of life.'"
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    >I expect to own my operating system in the same way that a tenant owns the interior of building. The landlord cannot walk into the home uninvited. The landlord cannot install cameras or listening devices in the home. Yeah, and I want a unicorn that farts rainbows. If you continue to use Windows, you're going to get all kinds of uninvited stuff you don't want. The question is, what are you going to do about it? Sit around a whine? Personally, I love this stuff, and I hope MS makes it so people can't disable it, and even requires that all Windows PCs must be connected to the internet at all times to phone home, or else they stop working.
Someone1234 11y ago
The Microsoft Office one is far worse than this example. I actually had Office installed and was STILL seeing those annoying as heck notifications. That was just blatant and annoying advertising. All this is, is you're opting to receive dynamic lock screen images that rotate constantly, Microsoft threw in a few ads. It isn't ideal but you you get something in return (a constantly changing set of lock screen images from Windows Spotlight). With the Office thing you get nothing in return, it is just irritating and pointless.
- r3bl 11y ago
  > I actually had Office installed and was STILL seeing those annoying as heck notifications. That was just blatant and annoying advertising. Same thing here. I don't see how hard could it be to verify that the Microsoft account I have used to create a Windows account has an Office 365 subscription.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  This behavior is caused by a preinstalled modern app called "Get Office", which you can find in your Start Menu's All Apps list. Along with it's brethren "Get Skype", right click and uninstall both. The fact that these apps are unable to tell that you already "Got Skype" and "Got Office" is definitely irritating.
  - Maarten88 11y ago
    Sandboxing. The apps would probably need permission to read your licences from AD to "get it".
  - seanp2k2 11y ago
    Who at Microsoft is pushing for and developing this junk?
    - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
      Honestly, I've done a lot of support for seniors and non-technical users, and I'm absolutely positive there are people getting feedback like "we don't know where to get Office" and the like. And that decisions like this (along with the questionable methods of streamlining Windows 10 installs for Windows 7 and 8 users) are primarily motivated by a desire to make Windows not seem harder to use than popular mobile platforms. But there's been a huge breakdown, I think, in realizing that it's not correct to treat all users the same way. The fact that my Pro-licensed, domain-joined PC auto-installs Candy Crush on it is kinda an indication they're missing this critical piece.

RealCasually 11y ago

What is the harm done? Of course you don't "own" your operating system. You also paid nothing for it. I also struggle to grasp the double standard of why Google, Facebook, et al are able to endlessly track and personalize ads, but when Microsoft follows a similar model, there is outrage.

gargravarr 11y ago
The argument that Win10 is free won't hold for much longer, it's only 'free' if you upgrade from Win7 or 8. It's already being sold retail in stores for a similar price to the old versions. And from later this year, people will have to pay for upgrades too. On the flipside, you don't "own" your software anyway, you own a license to use it (EULA). The double-standard probably has something to do with the ability to block most of Google's ads and tracking, or use another search platform if you really want. This is the OS on top of which you'll be using all of your other software (web platforms included), and it's impossible to control what is going on in the background.
- seanp2k2 11y ago
  While I agree with the difference, it should still be possible to block these types of ads with some kind of firewall. Unless the OS is blocking the blocking at a lower level (which I'd be VERY surprised by), something like Privoxy and using that as the system proxy for http[s] should be able to knock these out if they're loaded dynamically. I haven't tested this, so it would require some inspection and network monitoring to figure out what's serving these. Some hosts file entries may even be enough.
  - opnitro 11y ago
    I think that's different because you are subverted the OS's attempts to advertise to you. Most people are not willing to go to this level. Changing search engines is not subverting Google, it's just not using their product.
0x0 11y ago
Just paid $119 here for a windows 10 license. Do you know of a better deal - for hardware that never shipped with a (subsidized) windows license? http://www.microsoftstore.com/store?Action=DisplayPage&Locale=en_US&SiteID=msusa&id=ThreePgCheckoutShoppingCartPage http://www.microsoftstore.com/store?Action=DisplayPage&Local...
- NamTaf 11y ago
  Reddit has a pretty robust sale of windows licenses for $15-25 and then you can upgrade them from 7 to 10 if you want to go cheaper. edit: I don't necessarily know about their legitimacy, and I've never used them myself.
pdkl95 11y ago
> You also paid nothing for it. Windows requires payment, just not in dollars. The data gathered from "telemetry" (spyware) is valuable. edit: I'll assume from the downvotes that some people want to pretend that pattern-of-life data isn't valuable
- wongarsu 11y ago
  > I'll assume from the downvotes that some people want to pretend that pattern-of-life data isn't valuable I'm pretty sure it's from people who either payed for Windows and just got a free upgrade, or who directly bought Windows 10. Computers with "free" Windows obviously also have the price of Windows factored in. The closest you get to free Windows is with Dreamspark (their MINT student program), and even that costs money for the university.
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    Like many in posts in this thread, the "free" I was replying is the Win10 upgrade. Unlike previous upgrades that cost money, many people instead had to pay for that upgrade in data. Obviously Windows is sold in other forms, and new pre-built computers still have a Windows Tax.
bendykstra 11y ago
I expect to own my operating system in the same way that a tenant owns the interior of building. The landlord cannot walk into the home uninvited. The landlord cannot install cameras or listening devices in the home. As Justice Roberts said in Riley v. California (which also applies to computers, surely), "Modern cell phones are not just another technological convenience. With all they contain and all they may reveal, they hold for many Americans 'the privacies of life.'"
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  >I expect to own my operating system in the same way that a tenant owns the interior of building. The landlord cannot walk into the home uninvited. The landlord cannot install cameras or listening devices in the home. Yeah, and I want a unicorn that farts rainbows. If you continue to use Windows, you're going to get all kinds of uninvited stuff you don't want. The question is, what are you going to do about it? Sit around a whine? Personally, I love this stuff, and I hope MS makes it so people can't disable it, and even requires that all Windows PCs must be connected to the internet at all times to phone home, or else they stop working.

Someone1234 11y ago

The Microsoft Office one is far worse than this example. I actually had Office installed and was STILL seeing those annoying as heck notifications. That was just blatant and annoying advertising. All this is, is you're opting to receive dynamic lock screen images that rotate constantly, Microsoft threw in a few ads. It isn't ideal but you you get something in return (a constantly changing set of lock screen images from Windows Spotlight). With the Office thing you get nothing in return, it is just irritating and pointless.

r3bl 11y ago
> I actually had Office installed and was STILL seeing those annoying as heck notifications. That was just blatant and annoying advertising. Same thing here. I don't see how hard could it be to verify that the Microsoft account I have used to create a Windows account has an Office 365 subscription.
ocdtrekkie 11y ago
This behavior is caused by a preinstalled modern app called "Get Office", which you can find in your Start Menu's All Apps list. Along with it's brethren "Get Skype", right click and uninstall both. The fact that these apps are unable to tell that you already "Got Skype" and "Got Office" is definitely irritating.
- Maarten88 11y ago
  Sandboxing. The apps would probably need permission to read your licences from AD to "get it".
- seanp2k2 11y ago
  Who at Microsoft is pushing for and developing this junk?
  - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
    Honestly, I've done a lot of support for seniors and non-technical users, and I'm absolutely positive there are people getting feedback like "we don't know where to get Office" and the like. And that decisions like this (along with the questionable methods of streamlining Windows 10 installs for Windows 7 and 8 users) are primarily motivated by a desire to make Windows not seem harder to use than popular mobile platforms. But there's been a huge breakdown, I think, in realizing that it's not correct to treat all users the same way. The fact that my Pro-licensed, domain-joined PC auto-installs Candy Crush on it is kinda an indication they're missing this critical piece.