4 ms·

> Just because one team of developers could do something in 200 man hours doesn't mean you can't spend and bill 2000 for it. It doesn't mean you should pay, or

by orf 11y ago

> Just because one team of developers could do something in 200 man hours doesn't mean you can't spend and bill 2000 for it. It doesn't mean you should pay, or plan, to spend 20,000 man hours in meetings and devote huge chunks of your budget to expensive licenses for something that could take 200 man hours, especially when it's taxpayers money. Sure there are unavoidable overheads but why does our government keep splashing billions on them and failing, with little accountability? Training is going to be expensive, sure, but perhaps plow millions of pounds into that after the program is finished. Maybe don't use the same massive, costly consultancies that fail to deliver? The Obamacare website was a great example of this IMO. Costly consultancy failed to deliver, small agile teams brought in to save the day - if only a bit too late.

Avshalom 11y ago
The U.S. Government* isn't allowed to say "we want to spend this much money for this thing" they can only say "we want this thing" and then take the "best" offer they get, a fact known by all the companies bidding, and by all the companies I mean the one company that has jumped through all the legal hoops necessary to allow them to bid. *I know UC is British and while I suspect they have similar constraints I won't swear to it.
Lawtonfogle 11y ago
Basically all the laws that are written to avoid government abuse and corruption create a corrupted system of regulatory capture. Here is the simplest example. Say you need a device that does X. Now, I can go down to the local hardware store and pick up a device that does X (and Y and Z) for $40. But the law is written so that I can't just buy it where I want, because I might be wasteful and I might buy it from my buddy. So instead, I have to put out a bid that says I want a device that can do X and only select whom ever wins a bid. But there are a lot of regulations in who can bid, so the local hardware store doesn't ever even try. So I say I want a device that does X, and I end up getting a couple offers, the best of which is a device that barely does X for $200. That is the best offer I receive, so I have to take it. So now I have a much worse device at a much higher cost. Now, multiply this with every single thing you need to pay for in a software project (including other software, licenses, hardware, manpower, even the paper to print specs on).
- petra 11y ago
  >> the best of which is a device that barely does X for $200. OK, after we did the bid, and that's the result, why can't i just go buy something if it's less than half the price ? even if i buy it from my buddy, as long as it fits ?
  - jjoonathan 11y ago
    Because your buddy was secretly cutting corners using Chinese chips that have a backdoor. Or chips that weren't bonded to spec and last only 2 months in the desert heat. That's the theory anyway.
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    Because that would be corruption by official definition and the winner of the bid would sue. And that happens even if you don't buy it from your buddy but by an industry standard part from an industry standard supplier for the private sector.
- FollowSteph3 11y ago
  I wrote a blog post explaining exactly this in detail based on my previous experience doing government contracts. I called it why a hammer costs $5000: http://www.followsteph.com/2011/11/22/why-does-a-hammer-cost-5000/ http://www.followsteph.com/2011/11/22/why-does-a-hammer-cost...

by orf 11y ago

Avshalom 11y ago

The U.S. Government* isn't allowed to say "we want to spend this much money for this thing" they can only say "we want this thing" and then take the "best" offer they get, a fact known by all the companies bidding, and by all the companies I mean the one company that has jumped through all the legal hoops necessary to allow them to bid. *I know UC is British and while I suspect they have similar constraints I won't swear to it.

Lawtonfogle 11y ago

Basically all the laws that are written to avoid government abuse and corruption create a corrupted system of regulatory capture. Here is the simplest example. Say you need a device that does X. Now, I can go down to the local hardware store and pick up a device that does X (and Y and Z) for $40. But the law is written so that I can't just buy it where I want, because I might be wasteful and I might buy it from my buddy. So instead, I have to put out a bid that says I want a device that can do X and only select whom ever wins a bid. But there are a lot of regulations in who can bid, so the local hardware store doesn't ever even try. So I say I want a device that does X, and I end up getting a couple offers, the best of which is a device that barely does X for $200. That is the best offer I receive, so I have to take it. So now I have a much worse device at a much higher cost. Now, multiply this with every single thing you need to pay for in a software project (including other software, licenses, hardware, manpower, even the paper to print specs on).

petra 11y ago
>> the best of which is a device that barely does X for $200. OK, after we did the bid, and that's the result, why can't i just go buy something if it's less than half the price ? even if i buy it from my buddy, as long as it fits ?
- jjoonathan 11y ago
  Because your buddy was secretly cutting corners using Chinese chips that have a backdoor. Or chips that weren't bonded to spec and last only 2 months in the desert heat. That's the theory anyway.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  Because that would be corruption by official definition and the winner of the bid would sue. And that happens even if you don't buy it from your buddy but by an industry standard part from an industry standard supplier for the private sector.
FollowSteph3 11y ago
I wrote a blog post explaining exactly this in detail based on my previous experience doing government contracts. I called it why a hammer costs $5000: http://www.followsteph.com/2011/11/22/why-does-a-hammer-cost-5000/ http://www.followsteph.com/2011/11/22/why-does-a-hammer-cost...