8 ms·

Australian Government wants Google to filter YouTube like it does for China

49 points by KiwiNige 17y ago

Concours 17y ago
so the australian communications Minister Stephen Conroy has just set the democracy and freedom of speech and internet to chinese standards? this is sad. could someone just tell these peoples to wake up!
- jstevens85 17y ago
  It obviously isn't to Chinese standards. China censors dissent and political opposition. The Australian Constitution protects freedom of political communication. Therefore, any laws that restrict the ability of residents to discuss and criticise political decisions and issues would be unconstitutional. In regards to euthanasia, it is perfectly fine to discuss the philosophical and political arguments on each side. However, it is currently illegal to provide explicit how-to instructions on performing euthanasia. This has led to the disappointing decision to ban The Peaceful Pill Book, written by Australian euthanasia advocate Philip Nitschke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peaceful_Pill_Handbook http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peaceful_Pill_Handbook The proposed Internet filter will limit access to extreme porn, excessively violent material and instructions on how to commit crimes. It's regrettable that the government is even proposing such legislation, but it doesn't help anyone to make inaccurate comparisons to countries like China and Iran. A more sensible comparison would be to Denmark, which already has an operational internet filter.
  - netcan 17y ago
    My personal view is that it doesn't really matter what the intentions are now. It's a framework. Before, no one could enforce restrictions on speech in Australia. It's not a question of laws or policies, it was physically impossible. You could send police to shut down a TV station, but not a website. Now it is a matter of laws or policies.
  - Concours 17y ago
    Quote: "Communications Minister Stephen Conroy referred to Google's censorship on behalf of the Chinese and Thai governments in making his case for the company to impose censorship locally." Well , this sounds like referring to chinese standards to me, and it seems to just be a first step, they already imposed censorship on other stuff, not quite sure what it is exactly,a kind of blacklist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australi... so if you give these Guys the power to filter everything they don't want you to see, they will use it, google has a search engine and this search engine help peoples " find what they are looking for " so I think maybe they should figure out how to educate people to not look for some kind of content and not ask google to do that, and maybe some parents to do their homework with their kids looking for porn and other sensitive content.
    - pmccool 17y ago
      I imagine Conroy was making the point that it was technically possible. I don't think that bringing up Chinese internet censorship was the most politically astute way to make that point, mind you...
  - pmccool 17y ago
    I think people will make it a freedom-of-political-communication issue, because that's the obvious way of getting the law declared invalid, or declared not to apply to political speech or what-have-you. There's no absolute freedom of political communication in Australia. Instead, there's a test of whether the law is appropriate and adapted to a legitimate purpose. It's not at all clear how internet censorship laws will fare under this test.
  - CWuestefeld 17y ago
    It obviously isn't to Chinese standards. China censors dissent and political opposition. The Australian Constitution protects freedom of political communication. ...it is perfectly fine to discuss the philosophical and political arguments on each side. However, it is currently illegal to provide explicit how-to instructions on performing euthanasia. No, you're presupposing the answer. Specifically, you have already decided where the line is between political debate and illegal action. But I claim that this isn't an inherent line. For example, it's impossible to fully debate euthanasia without understanding how it's done. Yet your assumption implicitly bars introduction of that material. And China makes the claim that pr0n is inherently destabilizing to the country -- the very same argument you're making against how-to on euthanasia.
philk 17y ago
Communications Minister Stephen Conroy referred to Google's censorship on behalf of the Chinese and Thai governments in making his case for the company to impose censorship locally. When your communication minister is making reference to Chinese internet policy in a favorable context you know something's gone badly wrong somewhere.
- lmkg 17y ago
  The Chinese censorship that Google is pulling the plug on?
  - bootload 17y ago
    "... The Chinese censorship that Google is pulling the plug on? ..." Yes, "Google baulks at Conroy's call to censor YouTube" (Asher Moses, The Age) ~ http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-baulks-at-conroys-call-to-censor-youtube-20100211-ntm0.html http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-b...
  - freddier 17y ago
    _The Chinese censorship that Google is supposedly pulling the plug on._ A lot of talking, but so far everything looks business as usual in China, AFAIK.
jerf 17y ago
What's going on down there? There's been a burst of these sorts of stories lately. I mean this seriously, since I live about 10,000 miles away; what's the story behind this burst of censorship lately? (A link is fine, but I don't have a clue what to even look for to get an answer.)
- netcan 17y ago
  Worryingly, it seems to be coming out of nowhere and most people I talk to have no idea that it's going on.
  - Devilboy 17y ago
    Worse, this poll http://www.news.com.au/technology/internet-porn-we-dont-look-at-it-say-aussies/story-e6frfro0-1225829120687 http://www.news.com.au/technology/internet-porn-we-dont-look... indicated that most Aussies supports the idea of an internet filter!
    - netcan 17y ago
      I have increasingly less confidence that democracy can deal with this issue. Articles and that and others inevitably focus on pornography. Discussions end up going off to a side about whether or not kids or even adults should watch porn and what is going too far. All those things are completely irrelevant because they are talking about what should be filtered.
- bootload 17y ago
  "...I mean this seriously, since I live about 10,000 miles away; what's the story behind this burst of censorship lately? ..." The censorship is not a new thing. I was watching of all things an old interview with Frank Zappa circa 1983 (Rage, ABCTV) ~ http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200705/programs/LE0630V014D9052007T203000.htm http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200705/programs/LE0630V0... and he was talking about his albums. Album after album was censored. Australia has always had this background level of censorship only now it's more visible. The current censorship trouble is being driven by the Minister for Communications ~ http://www.google.com/search?q=senator+stephen+conroy http://www.google.com/search?q=senator+stephen+conroy you can read more here ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Conroy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Conroy Another in a long line of political religious zealots keen on pushing through legislation of dubious merit. [0] [0] I say dubious merit in this case because tracking the kinds of offenders should attacked as a Network science problem not a censorship one.
ra 17y ago
It would be brilliant if President Obama could bring this up as a discussion topic when he visits here, next month. I've noticed some intelligent and balanced commentary from the US State dept recently regarding Internet censorship, democracy and human rights.
mambodog 17y ago
The really stupid thing about this is that most of the kinds of material that Conroy makes a big deal about (child porn, fetish porn, etc) is already banned on Youtube. The kinds of things that they're asking Google to go the effort of filtering are videos about things like how to do graffiti, and information about euthanasia. Not really worth it, is it?
whatusername 17y ago
You know what would be awesome? If Google just shut down youtube for australia. Even for a day. (With a site explaining that the government wants to censor it). I know it will never happen - but would be so awesome if it did.
- Groxx 17y ago
  I really like this idea, actually. Though even a splash page would probably be enough. If put in the right terms, I think the majority of people would cry shenanigans on their gov't, as many probably have no idea it's going on.
patrickmclaren 17y ago
Our current affairs programs such as 'Today Tonight' and 'A Current Affair' feed on stories like these, which only provide more fuel for newspapers, radio talk shows and even schools for discussion. The general public here is still of the naive opinion that the internet is dangerous.
rms 17y ago
What kinds of videos do the Australians want Youtube to filter? I think this might be someone to score political points out of a minister misstatement. I suspect Youtube already does a good enough job filtering porn to satisfy the Australian government. It's not like the Australians want to start blocking words like "freedom" and "nirvana".
- jstevens85 17y ago
  The full interview can be seen here, and is worth watching: http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/stephen-conroy-extended-interview http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/stephen-conroy-extende... Conroy wasn't talking about YouTube specifically, but about Google and high-volume websites in general that currently aren't possible to filter through software. I'd be surprised if YouTube did contain material that the OFLC would consider Refused Classification.
  - whatusername 17y ago
    Possibly. I wonder if a video game playthrough (say fallout 3) is RC? The US version of the game is, but is a video of said game (esp. as there's an R rating for video). Also - the crime instruction issue, might be something like that on youtube
    - jstevens85 17y ago
      There is only one worldwide version of Fallout 3; the Australian version is identical to the US copy. The item Morphine was renamed Med-X to pass through the Australian Classfication Board. The name change was also applied to all other international versions of the game. A better example would be a game like L4D2. However that should be perfectly fine. Although video games lack an R18+ rating in Australia, such a rating exists for television and film. Therefore, a video of a RC computer game should be fine (as long as it is within the constraints of the R18+ rating for film). I think it's unlikely that YouTube would a host a video on crime instruction that would be severe enough to be considered RC. I may be wrong. Perhaps someone could try uploading a euthanasia how-to video on YouTube describing explicitly the steps involved in performing euthanasia - the drugs required, how to obtain and smuggle such drugs through Australian customs, and the dosage required. I suspect that YouTube would probably take it down.
clistctrl 17y ago
So lately I've been thinking, there seems to be a large push globally towards greater censorship on the web. At the moment it would seem as if the US has been immune, but it makes me consider the possibility that in the future it could come to us too. I had this idea of building a backup system for easily and covertly passing information around on the web using the existing infrastructure in order to bypass existing filtration systems. It seems really important that we should be prepared, just in case.
j_baker 17y ago
Population of China: 1,325,639,982 GDP of China: $4.33 Trillion Population of Australia: 21,374,000 GDP of Australia: $1.02 Trillion As unfair as China's censorship is, they can have it because they have a large enough market. Is Australia really large enough for Google to be that concerned about? It's not fair. But then again, business isn't fair either.
- jhancock 17y ago
  China has over 60x the population of Australia but only 4x the GDP. Sounds like Australia is quite a honey pot relatively speaking. Especially when you consider YouTube ad revenue probably does better in Australia than in China.

49 points by KiwiNige 17y ago

so the australian communications Minister Stephen Conroy has just set the democracy and freedom of speech and internet to chinese standards? this is sad. could someone just tell these peoples to wake up!

jstevens85 17y ago
It obviously isn't to Chinese standards. China censors dissent and political opposition. The Australian Constitution protects freedom of political communication. Therefore, any laws that restrict the ability of residents to discuss and criticise political decisions and issues would be unconstitutional. In regards to euthanasia, it is perfectly fine to discuss the philosophical and political arguments on each side. However, it is currently illegal to provide explicit how-to instructions on performing euthanasia. This has led to the disappointing decision to ban The Peaceful Pill Book, written by Australian euthanasia advocate Philip Nitschke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peaceful_Pill_Handbook http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Peaceful_Pill_Handbook The proposed Internet filter will limit access to extreme porn, excessively violent material and instructions on how to commit crimes. It's regrettable that the government is even proposing such legislation, but it doesn't help anyone to make inaccurate comparisons to countries like China and Iran. A more sensible comparison would be to Denmark, which already has an operational internet filter.
- netcan 17y ago
  My personal view is that it doesn't really matter what the intentions are now. It's a framework. Before, no one could enforce restrictions on speech in Australia. It's not a question of laws or policies, it was physically impossible. You could send police to shut down a TV station, but not a website. Now it is a matter of laws or policies.
- Concours 17y ago
  Quote: "Communications Minister Stephen Conroy referred to Google's censorship on behalf of the Chinese and Thai governments in making his case for the company to impose censorship locally." Well , this sounds like referring to chinese standards to me, and it seems to just be a first step, they already imposed censorship on other stuff, not quite sure what it is exactly,a kind of blacklist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_Australi... so if you give these Guys the power to filter everything they don't want you to see, they will use it, google has a search engine and this search engine help peoples " find what they are looking for " so I think maybe they should figure out how to educate people to not look for some kind of content and not ask google to do that, and maybe some parents to do their homework with their kids looking for porn and other sensitive content.
  - pmccool 17y ago
    I imagine Conroy was making the point that it was technically possible. I don't think that bringing up Chinese internet censorship was the most politically astute way to make that point, mind you...
- pmccool 17y ago
  I think people will make it a freedom-of-political-communication issue, because that's the obvious way of getting the law declared invalid, or declared not to apply to political speech or what-have-you. There's no absolute freedom of political communication in Australia. Instead, there's a test of whether the law is appropriate and adapted to a legitimate purpose. It's not at all clear how internet censorship laws will fare under this test.
- CWuestefeld 17y ago
  It obviously isn't to Chinese standards. China censors dissent and political opposition. The Australian Constitution protects freedom of political communication. ...it is perfectly fine to discuss the philosophical and political arguments on each side. However, it is currently illegal to provide explicit how-to instructions on performing euthanasia. No, you're presupposing the answer. Specifically, you have already decided where the line is between political debate and illegal action. But I claim that this isn't an inherent line. For example, it's impossible to fully debate euthanasia without understanding how it's done. Yet your assumption implicitly bars introduction of that material. And China makes the claim that pr0n is inherently destabilizing to the country -- the very same argument you're making against how-to on euthanasia.

philk 17y ago

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy referred to Google's censorship on behalf of the Chinese and Thai governments in making his case for the company to impose censorship locally. When your communication minister is making reference to Chinese internet policy in a favorable context you know something's gone badly wrong somewhere.

lmkg 17y ago
The Chinese censorship that Google is pulling the plug on?
- bootload 17y ago
  "... The Chinese censorship that Google is pulling the plug on? ..." Yes, "Google baulks at Conroy's call to censor YouTube" (Asher Moses, The Age) ~ http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-baulks-at-conroys-call-to-censor-youtube-20100211-ntm0.html http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-b...
- freddier 17y ago
  _The Chinese censorship that Google is supposedly pulling the plug on._ A lot of talking, but so far everything looks business as usual in China, AFAIK.

jerf 17y ago

What's going on down there? There's been a burst of these sorts of stories lately. I mean this seriously, since I live about 10,000 miles away; what's the story behind this burst of censorship lately? (A link is fine, but I don't have a clue what to even look for to get an answer.)

netcan 17y ago
Worryingly, it seems to be coming out of nowhere and most people I talk to have no idea that it's going on.
- Devilboy 17y ago
  Worse, this poll http://www.news.com.au/technology/internet-porn-we-dont-look-at-it-say-aussies/story-e6frfro0-1225829120687 http://www.news.com.au/technology/internet-porn-we-dont-look... indicated that most Aussies supports the idea of an internet filter!
  - netcan 17y ago
    I have increasingly less confidence that democracy can deal with this issue. Articles and that and others inevitably focus on pornography. Discussions end up going off to a side about whether or not kids or even adults should watch porn and what is going too far. All those things are completely irrelevant because they are talking about what should be filtered.
bootload 17y ago
"...I mean this seriously, since I live about 10,000 miles away; what's the story behind this burst of censorship lately? ..." The censorship is not a new thing. I was watching of all things an old interview with Frank Zappa circa 1983 (Rage, ABCTV) ~ http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200705/programs/LE0630V014D9052007T203000.htm http://www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200705/programs/LE0630V0... and he was talking about his albums. Album after album was censored. Australia has always had this background level of censorship only now it's more visible. The current censorship trouble is being driven by the Minister for Communications ~ http://www.google.com/search?q=senator+stephen+conroy http://www.google.com/search?q=senator+stephen+conroy you can read more here ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Conroy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Conroy Another in a long line of political religious zealots keen on pushing through legislation of dubious merit. [0] [0] I say dubious merit in this case because tracking the kinds of offenders should attacked as a Network science problem not a censorship one.

ra 17y ago

It would be brilliant if President Obama could bring this up as a discussion topic when he visits here, next month. I've noticed some intelligent and balanced commentary from the US State dept recently regarding Internet censorship, democracy and human rights.

mambodog 17y ago

The really stupid thing about this is that most of the kinds of material that Conroy makes a big deal about (child porn, fetish porn, etc) is already banned on Youtube. The kinds of things that they're asking Google to go the effort of filtering are videos about things like how to do graffiti, and information about euthanasia. Not really worth it, is it?

whatusername 17y ago

You know what would be awesome? If Google just shut down youtube for australia. Even for a day. (With a site explaining that the government wants to censor it). I know it will never happen - but would be so awesome if it did.

Groxx 17y ago
I really like this idea, actually. Though even a splash page would probably be enough. If put in the right terms, I think the majority of people would cry shenanigans on their gov't, as many probably have no idea it's going on.

patrickmclaren 17y ago

Our current affairs programs such as 'Today Tonight' and 'A Current Affair' feed on stories like these, which only provide more fuel for newspapers, radio talk shows and even schools for discussion. The general public here is still of the naive opinion that the internet is dangerous.

rms 17y ago

What kinds of videos do the Australians want Youtube to filter? I think this might be someone to score political points out of a minister misstatement. I suspect Youtube already does a good enough job filtering porn to satisfy the Australian government. It's not like the Australians want to start blocking words like "freedom" and "nirvana".

jstevens85 17y ago
The full interview can be seen here, and is worth watching: http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/stephen-conroy-extended-interview http://hungrybeast.abc.net.au/stories/stephen-conroy-extende... Conroy wasn't talking about YouTube specifically, but about Google and high-volume websites in general that currently aren't possible to filter through software. I'd be surprised if YouTube did contain material that the OFLC would consider Refused Classification.
- whatusername 17y ago
  Possibly. I wonder if a video game playthrough (say fallout 3) is RC? The US version of the game is, but is a video of said game (esp. as there's an R rating for video). Also - the crime instruction issue, might be something like that on youtube
  - jstevens85 17y ago
    There is only one worldwide version of Fallout 3; the Australian version is identical to the US copy. The item Morphine was renamed Med-X to pass through the Australian Classfication Board. The name change was also applied to all other international versions of the game. A better example would be a game like L4D2. However that should be perfectly fine. Although video games lack an R18+ rating in Australia, such a rating exists for television and film. Therefore, a video of a RC computer game should be fine (as long as it is within the constraints of the R18+ rating for film). I think it's unlikely that YouTube would a host a video on crime instruction that would be severe enough to be considered RC. I may be wrong. Perhaps someone could try uploading a euthanasia how-to video on YouTube describing explicitly the steps involved in performing euthanasia - the drugs required, how to obtain and smuggle such drugs through Australian customs, and the dosage required. I suspect that YouTube would probably take it down.

clistctrl 17y ago

So lately I've been thinking, there seems to be a large push globally towards greater censorship on the web. At the moment it would seem as if the US has been immune, but it makes me consider the possibility that in the future it could come to us too. I had this idea of building a backup system for easily and covertly passing information around on the web using the existing infrastructure in order to bypass existing filtration systems. It seems really important that we should be prepared, just in case.

j_baker 17y ago

Population of China: 1,325,639,982 GDP of China: $4.33 Trillion Population of Australia: 21,374,000 GDP of Australia: $1.02 Trillion As unfair as China's censorship is, they can have it because they have a large enough market. Is Australia really large enough for Google to be that concerned about? It's not fair. But then again, business isn't fair either.

jhancock 17y ago
China has over 60x the population of Australia but only 4x the GDP. Sounds like Australia is quite a honey pot relatively speaking. Especially when you consider YouTube ad revenue probably does better in Australia than in China.