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If the new software they are to write also tried 10000 pass codes, would that count?

by brians 11y ago

nickysielicki 11y ago
No, because if his password wasn't 0000-9999, Apple still would have complied with the order and the phone would still be encrypted. They're not ordered to decrypt it. And I think when a layman hears "unlock", they're led to believe that means decrypt.
- Falkon1313 11y ago
  I think when a layman hears "unlock" they're more likely to picture a scene from a police detective drama when the investigators ask a landlord to unlock a deceased tenant's apartment so that they can investigate. If it were rephrased as "Hello Mr. Landlord, we're ordering you to open a machine shop and pay several employees to develop a new lockpicking device that could be copied infinitely for free and which would allow us, or anyone really... a North Korean agency, an organized crime syndicate, or a jealous and abusive ex-lover perhaps, to more easily break into any of the homes of billions of people around the world with or without reason or warrant?" then the layman might perceive it a little differently. That seems to be like the message that Apple's trying to communicate, but I don't know if they're getting it across clearly enough for most people.
  - nickysielicki 11y ago
    > "[...] to more easily break into [...] That's where your analogy breaks down. This hardly makes it easier. If North Korea or FBI or NSA or a criminal organization wanted to break into your iPhone, and this backdoor existed and was distributed, they would have to externally flash it with firmware and then hook up a controller that tricks the digitizer so that they can brute force the passcode, trying each one synchronously on a shitty mobile processor SoC. Is that really less complicated than externally reading the memory itself and using John the Ripper and a supercomputer? Is it meaningfully less complicated?
    - Piskvorrr 11y ago
      Yes, else this would be happening. The passcode is not the complete key, and there's a reason the Secure Enclave is named that way.
      - nickysielicki 11y ago
        The 5C has no secure enclave.

If the new software they are to write also tried 10000 pass codes, would that count?

by brians 11y ago

If the new software they are to write also tried 10000 pass codes, would that count?

No, because if his password wasn't 0000-9999, Apple still would have complied with the order and the phone would still be encrypted. They're not ordered to decrypt it. And I think when a layman hears "unlock", they're led to believe that means decrypt.

Falkon1313 11y ago
I think when a layman hears "unlock" they're more likely to picture a scene from a police detective drama when the investigators ask a landlord to unlock a deceased tenant's apartment so that they can investigate. If it were rephrased as "Hello Mr. Landlord, we're ordering you to open a machine shop and pay several employees to develop a new lockpicking device that could be copied infinitely for free and which would allow us, or anyone really... a North Korean agency, an organized crime syndicate, or a jealous and abusive ex-lover perhaps, to more easily break into any of the homes of billions of people around the world with or without reason or warrant?" then the layman might perceive it a little differently. That seems to be like the message that Apple's trying to communicate, but I don't know if they're getting it across clearly enough for most people.
- nickysielicki 11y ago
  > "[...] to more easily break into [...] That's where your analogy breaks down. This hardly makes it easier. If North Korea or FBI or NSA or a criminal organization wanted to break into your iPhone, and this backdoor existed and was distributed, they would have to externally flash it with firmware and then hook up a controller that tricks the digitizer so that they can brute force the passcode, trying each one synchronously on a shitty mobile processor SoC. Is that really less complicated than externally reading the memory itself and using John the Ripper and a supercomputer? Is it meaningfully less complicated?
  - Piskvorrr 11y ago
    Yes, else this would be happening. The passcode is not the complete key, and there's a reason the Secure Enclave is named that way.
    - nickysielicki 11y ago
      The 5C has no secure enclave.