4 ms·

To take just two examples to add to my list above: Tea drinker -> Three different tea sets, which get used variously depending on what kind of tea I am drinkin

by 0xffff2 11y ago

To take just two examples to add to my list above: Tea drinker -> Three different tea sets, which get used variously depending on what kind of tea I am drinking. baker -> An entire kitchen full of tools. Perhaps I'm taking the article too literally, but if he really only has the things that came with his apartment, so clothes, a laptop, and headphones, he really can't do most of the things on your list, at least not at any kind of level beyond the most casual.

mbrock 11y ago
I have some nice tea things too, but when I'm travelling, I make tea with whatever's handy. The thing I mostly use for brewing is a gaiwan, which is basically just a cup with a lid, and that's very easy to substitute. And I used to bake quite a lot of bread using nothing but a couple of mixing bowls and an oven. So not to be argumentative or anything, but beyond clothes and a pair of swim shorts, the only things you need to do everything on my list, and that wouldn't be found in a typical furnished home, are: a decent pen, a deck of cards, and some oranges...
- CydeWeys 11y ago
  To expand on baking, you're going to need a huge variety of pots, pans, baking sheets, pie pans, cake containers, cupcake trays, mixing bowls, a stand mixer, a handheld mixer, rolling pins, ingredients, etc. I know because my sister is really into baking and she has all of that stuff and more; a whole kitchen full. By the time you're all said and done you're in for over $1,000, and a bunch of cupboards are full. The same applies to a bunch of the rest of hobbies that you mentioned. If you only care about doing something superficially, then sure, you don't need equipment. But to do something well? For example, making good podcasts requires a full setup of audio engineering equipment -- mics, mic stands, various digital audio equipment that plugs into a computer, etc. Similar for running; the people I know that are really into it have all sorts of shoes, GPS running watches, entire wardrobes of running gear (which you NEED to prevent chafing), reflective clothing, heart rate monitors, travel gear to bring with you when traveling for races; the list goes on. I've been into a bunch of hobbies in my life and every single one ended up accumulating significant amounts of gear. Even just being into programming or gaming, I've ended up with various mechanical keyboards, mice, computers, computer parts, displays, and more.
  - dwiel 11y ago
    My wife is really into cooking and baking and she has some of those things and that is it. Almost nothing that isn't in every kitchen. I can't speak to running but I'm into biking, I know people with all kinds of gear, but I get by just fine with my dad's bike from the 60s and my day clothes. Sure I could go faster with different clothes and an expensive bike, but the part about biking I enjoy has nothing to do with how fast money can buy me, but the places I see, the routes I find, the exercise I get, etc. Some hobbies really do require more gear, but in every hobby you'll find a spectrum of a minimum amount of gear people feel they need or want. Also you mention doing a hobby "well." There is a big difference between competitive bike racing and biking an hour every day for fun and exercise. Is someone who is into competitive bike racing doing their hobby "well"? More so than someone who doesn't have the gear and wouldn't win the race?
  - mbrock 11y ago
    I'd like to emphasize that I have absolutely nothing against gear. But I'm a little surprised that people continue to insist that no, one really needs lots of stuff. It's just not true that you need a huge variety of stuff for over $1,000 to bake bread. Think about it. The history of bread goes back thirty thousand years. You don't need a cupcake tray. You don't even need a baguette pan to make decent baguettes. I'm not making this up: I baked bread nearly every day for months using nothing special. With podcasts, I again resist the idea that to go beyond "superficial" you need anything except a phone. I've recorded audio on my iPhone lots of times. In a quiet room, it works fine. There are plenty of very serious podcasts with people who participate by phone, and that's just fine. Again with running. Nope, you don't need that stuff. How did people run a hundred thousand years ago? It's a fundamental bodily function. I have a pair of Merrell Trail Gloves that I also use as walking shoes in the summer, and they're just fine for running, and no other equipment is necessary at all. I program just fine with just a laptop. Again—it's all just preference and availability. But you can't say that everyone needs this stuff, because they don't. And I resist the notion because I think it can prevent people from getting started with the stuff they actually have.
    - whitegrape 11y ago
kaitai 11y ago
It's interesting to take a view that contrasts with Sivers' article and most of us on HN -- that of someone on the edge of homelessness. I remember reading Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed and thinking about cooking and baking. When she was living in a motel room rented by the week, it was hard to cook healthy food because she didn't have the budget to buy a pan, a pot, a spatula, some silverware, a mixing bowl, etc. Besides the budget, there was the problem of storing them in a precarious living situation. They're annoying to schlep. To start off my minimalist college years, my mother brought me to the local Goodwill where I bought one fork, one knife, one spoon, one bowl, etc. Had to add chopsticks to get a really complete eating set, but these got me off to a good start. Even this minimalist set (chopsticks, knife, spoon, bowl, wooden mixing spoon, pot) require space, and they don't allow you to bake cookies (need a baking sheet!). I was nowhere near homeless though I could fit all my belongings into one room as wide as the length of a twin bed. Sivers knows that if he wants to make pastries, he can buy or borrow pastry-making equipment -- just as I can. So he doesn't need to keep it around. Those with little by necessity rather than choice don't have that confidence. Not wanting stuff is for people who have access the stuff they need.

by 0xffff2 11y ago

mbrock 11y ago

I have some nice tea things too, but when I'm travelling, I make tea with whatever's handy. The thing I mostly use for brewing is a gaiwan, which is basically just a cup with a lid, and that's very easy to substitute. And I used to bake quite a lot of bread using nothing but a couple of mixing bowls and an oven. So not to be argumentative or anything, but beyond clothes and a pair of swim shorts, the only things you need to do everything on my list, and that wouldn't be found in a typical furnished home, are: a decent pen, a deck of cards, and some oranges...

CydeWeys 11y ago
To expand on baking, you're going to need a huge variety of pots, pans, baking sheets, pie pans, cake containers, cupcake trays, mixing bowls, a stand mixer, a handheld mixer, rolling pins, ingredients, etc. I know because my sister is really into baking and she has all of that stuff and more; a whole kitchen full. By the time you're all said and done you're in for over $1,000, and a bunch of cupboards are full. The same applies to a bunch of the rest of hobbies that you mentioned. If you only care about doing something superficially, then sure, you don't need equipment. But to do something well? For example, making good podcasts requires a full setup of audio engineering equipment -- mics, mic stands, various digital audio equipment that plugs into a computer, etc. Similar for running; the people I know that are really into it have all sorts of shoes, GPS running watches, entire wardrobes of running gear (which you NEED to prevent chafing), reflective clothing, heart rate monitors, travel gear to bring with you when traveling for races; the list goes on. I've been into a bunch of hobbies in my life and every single one ended up accumulating significant amounts of gear. Even just being into programming or gaming, I've ended up with various mechanical keyboards, mice, computers, computer parts, displays, and more.
- dwiel 11y ago
  My wife is really into cooking and baking and she has some of those things and that is it. Almost nothing that isn't in every kitchen. I can't speak to running but I'm into biking, I know people with all kinds of gear, but I get by just fine with my dad's bike from the 60s and my day clothes. Sure I could go faster with different clothes and an expensive bike, but the part about biking I enjoy has nothing to do with how fast money can buy me, but the places I see, the routes I find, the exercise I get, etc. Some hobbies really do require more gear, but in every hobby you'll find a spectrum of a minimum amount of gear people feel they need or want. Also you mention doing a hobby "well." There is a big difference between competitive bike racing and biking an hour every day for fun and exercise. Is someone who is into competitive bike racing doing their hobby "well"? More so than someone who doesn't have the gear and wouldn't win the race?
- mbrock 11y ago
  I'd like to emphasize that I have absolutely nothing against gear. But I'm a little surprised that people continue to insist that no, one really needs lots of stuff. It's just not true that you need a huge variety of stuff for over $1,000 to bake bread. Think about it. The history of bread goes back thirty thousand years. You don't need a cupcake tray. You don't even need a baguette pan to make decent baguettes. I'm not making this up: I baked bread nearly every day for months using nothing special. With podcasts, I again resist the idea that to go beyond "superficial" you need anything except a phone. I've recorded audio on my iPhone lots of times. In a quiet room, it works fine. There are plenty of very serious podcasts with people who participate by phone, and that's just fine. Again with running. Nope, you don't need that stuff. How did people run a hundred thousand years ago? It's a fundamental bodily function. I have a pair of Merrell Trail Gloves that I also use as walking shoes in the summer, and they're just fine for running, and no other equipment is necessary at all. I program just fine with just a laptop. Again—it's all just preference and availability. But you can't say that everyone needs this stuff, because they don't. And I resist the notion because I think it can prevent people from getting started with the stuff they actually have.
  - whitegrape 11y ago

kaitai 11y ago

It's interesting to take a view that contrasts with Sivers' article and most of us on HN -- that of someone on the edge of homelessness. I remember reading Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed and thinking about cooking and baking. When she was living in a motel room rented by the week, it was hard to cook healthy food because she didn't have the budget to buy a pan, a pot, a spatula, some silverware, a mixing bowl, etc. Besides the budget, there was the problem of storing them in a precarious living situation. They're annoying to schlep. To start off my minimalist college years, my mother brought me to the local Goodwill where I bought one fork, one knife, one spoon, one bowl, etc. Had to add chopsticks to get a really complete eating set, but these got me off to a good start. Even this minimalist set (chopsticks, knife, spoon, bowl, wooden mixing spoon, pot) require space, and they don't allow you to bake cookies (need a baking sheet!). I was nowhere near homeless though I could fit all my belongings into one room as wide as the length of a twin bed. Sivers knows that if he wants to make pastries, he can buy or borrow pastry-making equipment -- just as I can. So he doesn't need to keep it around. Those with little by necessity rather than choice don't have that confidence. Not wanting stuff is for people who have access the stuff they need.