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Rust could be the future, but I just don't see it for Kotlin. Scala's not perfect, but moving to Kotlin leaves a lot on the table. It reminds me of Swift in the

Rust could be the future, but I just don't see it for Kotlin. Scala's not perfect, but moving to Kotlin leaves a lot on the table. It reminds me of Swift in the way that it left out a lot of Scala at the outset, but appears to be slowly growing Scala-like functionality. At some point, I'm like, maybe life would be better if people just used Scala or languages that attempt to build on its techniques, rather than scale them back.

azth 11y ago
> but I just don't see it for Kotlin From what I understand, Kotlin will be gaining more features slowly but steadily, similar to what you describe for Swift. I think that Kotlin's ability to integrate seamlessly into any Java codebase (at least in theory) is one of the strongest things it has going for it. Plus being backed up by Jetbrains, with very strong focus on providing a top notch IDE experience.
- acjohnson55 11y ago
  How would you distinguish Kotlin's and Scala's Java integration? I only use Scala, but don't use it within a larger Java codebase, but my understanding is that this is pretty straightforward.
  - azth 11y ago
    You should be able to drop in a Kotlin file into any Java project, and mix and match as you choose, without having to restructure the entire project, and move to a different build system.
    - acjohnson55 11y ago
      You still need to build it with a Kotlin compiler though, right? Assuming you install the Scala compiler directly, rather than relying on SBT, you can do the same.
      - azth 11y ago
        I tested it out a bit, it seems that first, the Kotlin files get compiled with the Kotlin compiler jars; after that the Java files get compiled with javac.
mike_hearn 11y ago
Hmm, Rust and Kotlin are targeting very different markets. I can't forsee Rust ever taking over much (if any) of the market that Java/Kotlin/Scala are going after, the cost/benefit tradeoffs are just too different. JetBrains' strategy with Kotlin is pretty simple - take the best bits of Scala whilst not allowing anything to compromise toolchain quality or seamless Java interop. The goal being commercial success rather than research papers. It's basically a spin on the same recipe that made Java itself a success in the early days. Which is why I anticipate they'll be quite successful with it.

azth 11y ago

> but I just don't see it for Kotlin From what I understand, Kotlin will be gaining more features slowly but steadily, similar to what you describe for Swift. I think that Kotlin's ability to integrate seamlessly into any Java codebase (at least in theory) is one of the strongest things it has going for it. Plus being backed up by Jetbrains, with very strong focus on providing a top notch IDE experience.

acjohnson55 11y ago
How would you distinguish Kotlin's and Scala's Java integration? I only use Scala, but don't use it within a larger Java codebase, but my understanding is that this is pretty straightforward.
- azth 11y ago
  You should be able to drop in a Kotlin file into any Java project, and mix and match as you choose, without having to restructure the entire project, and move to a different build system.
  - acjohnson55 11y ago
    You still need to build it with a Kotlin compiler though, right? Assuming you install the Scala compiler directly, rather than relying on SBT, you can do the same.
    - azth 11y ago
      I tested it out a bit, it seems that first, the Kotlin files get compiled with the Kotlin compiler jars; after that the Java files get compiled with javac.

mike_hearn 11y ago

Hmm, Rust and Kotlin are targeting very different markets. I can't forsee Rust ever taking over much (if any) of the market that Java/Kotlin/Scala are going after, the cost/benefit tradeoffs are just too different. JetBrains' strategy with Kotlin is pretty simple - take the best bits of Scala whilst not allowing anything to compromise toolchain quality or seamless Java interop. The goal being commercial success rather than research papers. It's basically a spin on the same recipe that made Java itself a success in the early days. Which is why I anticipate they'll be quite successful with it.