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Well, very likely the same can be said about anti-nuclear protesters: they're not excluded for "political reasons", but for criminal actions which are "actual c

Well, very likely the same can be said about anti-nuclear protesters: they're not excluded for "political reasons", but for criminal actions which are "actual cause". Or so someone says. (Though in the case of this teacher, it looks like no crime could be cooked up). With AfD I've heard of trying to use just the political alignment as a reason (couldn't find the link just now).

Xylakant 11y ago
If you're looking for samples you'll probably find sufficient if you're looking for NPD affiliates (they're not illegal either). If you look up cases where the affiliation is left-wing or anarchist you'll find even more. The standards for teachers are really very strict [1] - the must be "weltanschaulich neutral". There's certainly a debate to be had about whether they're too strict, but IMHO, Höcke is so far across the line that I'm all in favor of keeping him out. Edit: Note: higher standards apply for all government employees, but they're stricter for some, among them teachers, police etc.
- germanier 11y ago
  When I started working in public sector I had to sign that I'm not a member of an unconstitutional group. As examples it included a list similar to this one: https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorganisationen_0808.pdf https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorgan... It includes left-wing, right-wing, and islamist extremist groups. Interestingly this list also contains the leftist party "Die Linke" which now has been a member of the federal parliament for a rather long time. That being said it's probably not a hindrance if you are a member there but you are expected to explain yourself.
  - maze-le 11y ago
    Interesting list indeed, and not only the entry for "Die Linke" is at least questionable
  - zorked 11y ago
    Very interesting list, but perhaps it is meant to include some hardline former members of the SED?
    - Xylakant 11y ago
      Die Linke is seen by some as some sort of pariah in the German political landscape, due to its legacy and roots in the SED from which they never really distanced themselves in a very clear form. It's a bit of a touchy topic and the expansion to west Germany swept up a lot of nutcases, some of them in the more extremist spectrum. The topic gets even more confused since they're fairly well rooted in Eastern Germany where they are basically a left wing form of the SPD while they never managed to achieve that success in the West.
anon4711 11y ago
You're missing the key difference here: The maximum an anti-nuclear protester could hope to achieve through his or her actions would be to have the country quit nuclear power generation, nuclear waste storage, etc. The political views of a far-right politician such as Höcke (probably aka Landolf Ladig[1]), if you translate them into what he hopes to turn Germany into, threaten the liberal democratic basis of the German constitution. And that we have a law against. Naturally, the means through which said anti-nuclear activists try to achieve their goals, if only of making themselves heard, need to be legal, and if those actions are sufficiently illegal that they constitute a crime, I'm sure that will get the perpetrators in trouble and rightly so. [1] https://andreaskemper.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/landolf-ladig-ns-verherrlicher/ https://andreaskemper.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/landolf-ladig...
- ptaipale 11y ago
  This is drifting beside the original point, but my understanding is that the anti-nuclear movement in Germany has established a non-negligible violent culture. If you go to these protests, you know you're going to participate in or give vocal support for violent action. http://www.dw.com/en/clashes-between-police-and-anti-nuclear-protestors-turn-violent/a-6198103 http://www.dw.com/en/clashes-between-police-and-anti-nuclear...
  - anon4711 11y ago
    (I don't mind drifting for a bit) A considerable part of their actions is very disruptive, seeking to, in the view of the protesters, I imagine, annoy everybody involved in the transport of nuclear waste to such an extent that they'll give up, while in actuality just causing a financial burden for the taxpayer (17000(!) policemen were in service during the protest you linked to according to [1]). That includes the traditional "Schottern" (the "[removal of] gravel from the bed of the train tracks to stop the train" as the article calls it), see also [2]. Even encouraging others to go "Schottern" on the internet is punishable[3] (sorry, again only in German) and punished, though. And with respect to physical attacks, I think those protesters are rather harmless. I believe not a single policeman was injured in the aforementioned protests, even though thousands of protests were there (1500 at some point, 5000 at another point in time). [1] http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2010-11/castor-gorleben-transport http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2010-11/castor-gorleb... [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottern https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottern [3] http://www.oberlandesgericht-celle.niedersachsen.de/portal/live.php?navigation_id=13597&article_id=113907 http://www.oberlandesgericht-celle.niedersachsen.de/portal/l...

Xylakant 11y ago

If you're looking for samples you'll probably find sufficient if you're looking for NPD affiliates (they're not illegal either). If you look up cases where the affiliation is left-wing or anarchist you'll find even more. The standards for teachers are really very strict [1] - the must be "weltanschaulich neutral". There's certainly a debate to be had about whether they're too strict, but IMHO, Höcke is so far across the line that I'm all in favor of keeping him out. Edit: Note: higher standards apply for all government employees, but they're stricter for some, among them teachers, police etc.

germanier 11y ago
When I started working in public sector I had to sign that I'm not a member of an unconstitutional group. As examples it included a list similar to this one: https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorganisationen_0808.pdf https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorgan... It includes left-wing, right-wing, and islamist extremist groups. Interestingly this list also contains the leftist party "Die Linke" which now has been a member of the federal parliament for a rather long time. That being said it's probably not a hindrance if you are a member there but you are expected to explain yourself.
- maze-le 11y ago
  Interesting list indeed, and not only the entry for "Die Linke" is at least questionable
- zorked 11y ago
  Very interesting list, but perhaps it is meant to include some hardline former members of the SED?
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    Die Linke is seen by some as some sort of pariah in the German political landscape, due to its legacy and roots in the SED from which they never really distanced themselves in a very clear form. It's a bit of a touchy topic and the expansion to west Germany swept up a lot of nutcases, some of them in the more extremist spectrum. The topic gets even more confused since they're fairly well rooted in Eastern Germany where they are basically a left wing form of the SPD while they never managed to achieve that success in the West.

anon4711 11y ago

You're missing the key difference here: The maximum an anti-nuclear protester could hope to achieve through his or her actions would be to have the country quit nuclear power generation, nuclear waste storage, etc. The political views of a far-right politician such as Höcke (probably aka Landolf Ladig[1]), if you translate them into what he hopes to turn Germany into, threaten the liberal democratic basis of the German constitution. And that we have a law against. Naturally, the means through which said anti-nuclear activists try to achieve their goals, if only of making themselves heard, need to be legal, and if those actions are sufficiently illegal that they constitute a crime, I'm sure that will get the perpetrators in trouble and rightly so. [1] https://andreaskemper.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/landolf-ladig-ns-verherrlicher/ https://andreaskemper.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/landolf-ladig...

ptaipale 11y ago
This is drifting beside the original point, but my understanding is that the anti-nuclear movement in Germany has established a non-negligible violent culture. If you go to these protests, you know you're going to participate in or give vocal support for violent action. http://www.dw.com/en/clashes-between-police-and-anti-nuclear-protestors-turn-violent/a-6198103 http://www.dw.com/en/clashes-between-police-and-anti-nuclear...
- anon4711 11y ago
  (I don't mind drifting for a bit) A considerable part of their actions is very disruptive, seeking to, in the view of the protesters, I imagine, annoy everybody involved in the transport of nuclear waste to such an extent that they'll give up, while in actuality just causing a financial burden for the taxpayer (17000(!) policemen were in service during the protest you linked to according to [1]). That includes the traditional "Schottern" (the "[removal of] gravel from the bed of the train tracks to stop the train" as the article calls it), see also [2]. Even encouraging others to go "Schottern" on the internet is punishable[3] (sorry, again only in German) and punished, though. And with respect to physical attacks, I think those protesters are rather harmless. I believe not a single policeman was injured in the aforementioned protests, even though thousands of protests were there (1500 at some point, 5000 at another point in time). [1] http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2010-11/castor-gorleben-transport http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2010-11/castor-gorleb... [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottern https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottern [3] http://www.oberlandesgericht-celle.niedersachsen.de/portal/live.php?navigation_id=13597&article_id=113907 http://www.oberlandesgericht-celle.niedersachsen.de/portal/l...