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I guess you are not involved in politics? There is a lot of evidence that we should be very afraid of the state if you look at Verfassungsschutz activities. The

I guess you are not involved in politics? There is a lot of evidence that we should be very afraid of the state if you look at Verfassungsschutz activities. They are monitoring a lot of people who oppose policy backed by the state and there is a precedent in which “opposition members” were banned from state official jobs (teachers, ...) just a few years ago. Opposition member can mean for example being involved in anti nuclear-power protests. Edit: People are also targeted for being critical of the Verfassungsschutz, so me writing this as well as you replying positively is a likely reason to be monitored, take care!

ptaipale 11y ago
And not just a few years ago, this is an ongoing issue. For instance, a government minister in Hessen tries to ensure that this politician from AfD (in opposition to the ruling CDU/SDP coalition) should not be able to work as a teacher. http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschichte-unterrichtet-nach-hetzreden-hessen-will-afd-mann-hoecke-nicht-mehr-in-den-schuldienst-lassen_id_5216193.html http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...
- Xylakant 11y ago
  You're conveniently letting out the part about the racist remarks which are the actual cause. I'm all in favor of not letting racists teach children.
  - ptaipale 11y ago
    Well, very likely the same can be said about anti-nuclear protesters: they're not excluded for "political reasons", but for criminal actions which are "actual cause". Or so someone says. (Though in the case of this teacher, it looks like no crime could be cooked up). With AfD I've heard of trying to use just the political alignment as a reason (couldn't find the link just now).
    - Xylakant 11y ago
      If you're looking for samples you'll probably find sufficient if you're looking for NPD affiliates (they're not illegal either). If you look up cases where the affiliation is left-wing or anarchist you'll find even more. The standards for teachers are really very strict [1] - the must be "weltanschaulich neutral". There's certainly a debate to be had about whether they're too strict, but IMHO, Höcke is so far across the line that I'm all in favor of keeping him out. Edit: Note: higher standards apply for all government employees, but they're stricter for some, among them teachers, police etc.
      - germanier 11y ago
        When I started working in public sector I had to sign that I'm not a member of an unconstitutional group. As examples it included a list similar to this one: https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorganisationen_0808.pdf https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorgan... It includes left-wing, right-wing, and islamist extremist groups. Interestingly this list also contains the leftist party "Die Linke" which now has been a member of the federal parliament for a rather long time. That being said it's probably not a hindrance if you are a member there but you are expected to explain yourself.
        maze-le 11y ago
        Interesting list indeed, and not only the entry for "Die Linke" is at least questionable
        zorked 11y ago
        Very interesting list, but perhaps it is meant to include some hardline former members of the SED?
        Xylakant 11y ago
        Die Linke is seen by some as some sort of pariah in the German political landscape, due to its legacy and roots in the SED from which they never really distanced themselves in a very clear form. It's a bit of a touchy topic and the expansion to west Germany swept up a lot of nutcases, some of them in the more extremist spectrum. The topic gets even more confused since they're fairly well rooted in Eastern Germany where they are basically a left wing form of the SPD while they never managed to achieve that success in the West.
  - chopin 11y ago
    And who gets to decide who is a racist? Due process is there for a reason.
    - Xylakant 11y ago
      In this case I don't doubt it will end up in the courts which will observe due process. The statement was "we will try by all means" and Höcke is certainly free to appeal. Though the statements quoted were obviously racist, not even thinly veiled.
  - ManFromUranus 11y ago
    It's fine to be racist and teach children, as long as it's the anti-white brand of racism then nobody will have a problem.
  - chappi42 11y ago
    I'm against censoring. What I read here: >>hatte ... von einem "lebensbejahenden afrikanischen Ausbreitungstyp" gesprochen - was von Experten als rassistisch gewertet worden war<< [1] should not be compared with how the term 'racist' has e.g. been used in the Third Reich. As I understand, it's a scientific method to generalize and the race is a factor (among many others) and one should be allowed to say such things without loosing the job. [1] http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschichte-unterrichtet-nach-hetzreden-hessen-will-afd-mann-hoecke-nicht-mehr-in-den-schuldienst-lassen_id_5216193.html http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...
    - chappi42 11y ago
      HN doesn't disappoint ;-) knew already at writing time that this will deplete karma. (Nevermind, I have enough :-)
    - dddddointer 11y ago
      can you translate this phrase? google translate produces "life-affirming African propagation type", which doesn't have any clear meaning...
      - Xylakant 11y ago
        The intended and implied meaning "the African race has more sex and reproduces faster"
    - Xylakant 11y ago
      You're mistaken. There's no censoring going on at all. Höcke is free to say whatever he wants in public. He even gets more publicity and reach than most people. However, freedom of speech doesn't mean that statements are without consequence. He already collected a warning for voicing extreme right tendencies earlier (before the AFD even existed) and well, now there's consequences. He's a history teacher and fringe right wing people are just the kind of history teachers that are unfit for the job. (fringe left-wing nutcases as well).
      - 11y ago
  - Lawtonfogle 11y ago
    Nice term... who gets to define what counts. I remember a recent UK failing to protect children incident that shows the term itself is worthless to be used as any part of official government law.
  - dafas32 11y ago
    > racist remarks which are the actual cause That's very convenient.
  - HillRat 11y ago
    The distinction we hold in America is between letting a racist teach children vs teaching racism to children -- it is the act, not the beliefs, that are controlling. Though obviously I understand why European states are more wary in such cases.
Umn44 11y ago
>There is a lot of evidence that we should be very afraid of the state if you look at Verfassungsschutz activities. It goes way beyond that, all elites of all nations are afraid of their publics and are basically already implementing soft versions of martial law behind the scenes. The media being complicit. You should, the elite are locking down the planet and most people are too stupid and uninformed. Most won't believe it because it goes against belief in corporate ideology. Science on reasoning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ The (mass surveillance) by the NSA and abuse by law enforcement is just more part and parcel of state suppression of dissent against corporate interests. They're worried that the more people are going to wake up and corporate centers like the US and canada may be among those who also awaken. See this vid with Zbigniew Brzezinski, former United States National Security Advisor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY Brezinski at a press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTIZBCQ79g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTIZBCQ79g Major powers, and imposing control over the awakened masses. https://youtu.be/4usbR_kKCDs?t=397 https://youtu.be/4usbR_kKCDs?t=397 Important: http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137 http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137
samstave 11y ago
What is the expected outcome of "being monitored"? If a new WWIII starts that means you'll be disappeared? In the mean time - what impact will this have on you? I am just wondering how governments make intelligence "actionable".
- mrottenkolber 11y ago
  Right now its mostly about “divide and conquer”. They inject moles into political groups which will then actively push for violence and extremism which in turn causes a split of the group. Another effect is that people that are active in opposition politics are always questioning whether their comrades are on the states payroll (“V-Mann”). The goals here are to 1) weaken opposition, and 2) provide plausible reason for more sate security (e.g. Verfassungsschutz). (Historically, the Verfassungsschutz was founded after WW2 and its goal was to persecute communists. It was headed by hardcore Nazis for more than 30 years. Even the Americans called it a “phony” institution, since its name translates to “Constitution Protectors”.) There are rumors that big parts of the Neo-Nazi scene is funded by the Verfassungsschutz. They funded and instrumented the NSU assassinations and the Oktoberfest bombing. That's only what we know of today, go figure. If there was a fascist regime change in Germany, yes, I would expect a lot of people to be disappeared. Impact on me personally, right now? How would you feel if there was a military black-ops agency tapping you?
- cuillevel3 11y ago
  In the past they used it to infect the laptop of a potentially drug trafficking medical doctor. Of course it's unclear what the secret police is up to. This is mainly for the federal police and customs police.

ptaipale 11y ago

And not just a few years ago, this is an ongoing issue. For instance, a government minister in Hessen tries to ensure that this politician from AfD (in opposition to the ruling CDU/SDP coalition) should not be able to work as a teacher. http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschichte-unterrichtet-nach-hetzreden-hessen-will-afd-mann-hoecke-nicht-mehr-in-den-schuldienst-lassen_id_5216193.html http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...

Xylakant 11y ago
You're conveniently letting out the part about the racist remarks which are the actual cause. I'm all in favor of not letting racists teach children.
- ptaipale 11y ago
  Well, very likely the same can be said about anti-nuclear protesters: they're not excluded for "political reasons", but for criminal actions which are "actual cause". Or so someone says. (Though in the case of this teacher, it looks like no crime could be cooked up). With AfD I've heard of trying to use just the political alignment as a reason (couldn't find the link just now).
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    If you're looking for samples you'll probably find sufficient if you're looking for NPD affiliates (they're not illegal either). If you look up cases where the affiliation is left-wing or anarchist you'll find even more. The standards for teachers are really very strict [1] - the must be "weltanschaulich neutral". There's certainly a debate to be had about whether they're too strict, but IMHO, Höcke is so far across the line that I'm all in favor of keeping him out. Edit: Note: higher standards apply for all government employees, but they're stricter for some, among them teachers, police etc.
    - germanier 11y ago
      When I started working in public sector I had to sign that I'm not a member of an unconstitutional group. As examples it included a list similar to this one: https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorganisationen_0808.pdf https://www.justiz.bayern.de/media/pdf/verzeichnis_extrorgan... It includes left-wing, right-wing, and islamist extremist groups. Interestingly this list also contains the leftist party "Die Linke" which now has been a member of the federal parliament for a rather long time. That being said it's probably not a hindrance if you are a member there but you are expected to explain yourself.
      - maze-le 11y ago
        Interesting list indeed, and not only the entry for "Die Linke" is at least questionable
      - zorked 11y ago
        Very interesting list, but perhaps it is meant to include some hardline former members of the SED?
        Xylakant 11y ago
        Die Linke is seen by some as some sort of pariah in the German political landscape, due to its legacy and roots in the SED from which they never really distanced themselves in a very clear form. It's a bit of a touchy topic and the expansion to west Germany swept up a lot of nutcases, some of them in the more extremist spectrum. The topic gets even more confused since they're fairly well rooted in Eastern Germany where they are basically a left wing form of the SPD while they never managed to achieve that success in the West.
- chopin 11y ago
  And who gets to decide who is a racist? Due process is there for a reason.
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    In this case I don't doubt it will end up in the courts which will observe due process. The statement was "we will try by all means" and Höcke is certainly free to appeal. Though the statements quoted were obviously racist, not even thinly veiled.
- ManFromUranus 11y ago
  It's fine to be racist and teach children, as long as it's the anti-white brand of racism then nobody will have a problem.
- chappi42 11y ago
  I'm against censoring. What I read here: >>hatte ... von einem "lebensbejahenden afrikanischen Ausbreitungstyp" gesprochen - was von Experten als rassistisch gewertet worden war<< [1] should not be compared with how the term 'racist' has e.g. been used in the Third Reich. As I understand, it's a scientific method to generalize and the race is a factor (among many others) and one should be allowed to say such things without loosing the job. [1] http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschichte-unterrichtet-nach-hetzreden-hessen-will-afd-mann-hoecke-nicht-mehr-in-den-schuldienst-lassen_id_5216193.html http://www.focus.de/politik/videos/er-hatte-sport-und-geschi...
  - chappi42 11y ago
    HN doesn't disappoint ;-) knew already at writing time that this will deplete karma. (Nevermind, I have enough :-)
  - dddddointer 11y ago
    can you translate this phrase? google translate produces "life-affirming African propagation type", which doesn't have any clear meaning...
    - Xylakant 11y ago
      The intended and implied meaning "the African race has more sex and reproduces faster"
  - Xylakant 11y ago
    You're mistaken. There's no censoring going on at all. Höcke is free to say whatever he wants in public. He even gets more publicity and reach than most people. However, freedom of speech doesn't mean that statements are without consequence. He already collected a warning for voicing extreme right tendencies earlier (before the AFD even existed) and well, now there's consequences. He's a history teacher and fringe right wing people are just the kind of history teachers that are unfit for the job. (fringe left-wing nutcases as well).
    - 11y ago
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  Nice term... who gets to define what counts. I remember a recent UK failing to protect children incident that shows the term itself is worthless to be used as any part of official government law.
- dafas32 11y ago
  > racist remarks which are the actual cause That's very convenient.
- HillRat 11y ago
  The distinction we hold in America is between letting a racist teach children vs teaching racism to children -- it is the act, not the beliefs, that are controlling. Though obviously I understand why European states are more wary in such cases.

Umn44 11y ago

>There is a lot of evidence that we should be very afraid of the state if you look at Verfassungsschutz activities. It goes way beyond that, all elites of all nations are afraid of their publics and are basically already implementing soft versions of martial law behind the scenes. The media being complicit. You should, the elite are locking down the planet and most people are too stupid and uninformed. Most won't believe it because it goes against belief in corporate ideology. Science on reasoning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ The (mass surveillance) by the NSA and abuse by law enforcement is just more part and parcel of state suppression of dissent against corporate interests. They're worried that the more people are going to wake up and corporate centers like the US and canada may be among those who also awaken. See this vid with Zbigniew Brzezinski, former United States National Security Advisor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY Brezinski at a press conference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTIZBCQ79g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTIZBCQ79g Major powers, and imposing control over the awakened masses. https://youtu.be/4usbR_kKCDs?t=397 https://youtu.be/4usbR_kKCDs?t=397 Important: http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137 http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137

samstave 11y ago

What is the expected outcome of "being monitored"? If a new WWIII starts that means you'll be disappeared? In the mean time - what impact will this have on you? I am just wondering how governments make intelligence "actionable".

mrottenkolber 11y ago
Right now its mostly about “divide and conquer”. They inject moles into political groups which will then actively push for violence and extremism which in turn causes a split of the group. Another effect is that people that are active in opposition politics are always questioning whether their comrades are on the states payroll (“V-Mann”). The goals here are to 1) weaken opposition, and 2) provide plausible reason for more sate security (e.g. Verfassungsschutz). (Historically, the Verfassungsschutz was founded after WW2 and its goal was to persecute communists. It was headed by hardcore Nazis for more than 30 years. Even the Americans called it a “phony” institution, since its name translates to “Constitution Protectors”.) There are rumors that big parts of the Neo-Nazi scene is funded by the Verfassungsschutz. They funded and instrumented the NSU assassinations and the Oktoberfest bombing. That's only what we know of today, go figure. If there was a fascist regime change in Germany, yes, I would expect a lot of people to be disappeared. Impact on me personally, right now? How would you feel if there was a military black-ops agency tapping you?
cuillevel3 11y ago
In the past they used it to infect the laptop of a potentially drug trafficking medical doctor. Of course it's unclear what the secret police is up to. This is mainly for the federal police and customs police.