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considered how Germans are obsessed with privacy and state surveillance (see for example cash usage vs electronic payments), let's see a country going nut in 3

considered how Germans are obsessed with privacy and state surveillance (see for example cash usage vs electronic payments), let's see a country going nut in 3 2 1 ...

kuschku 11y ago
We won’t really go nuts over this – the trojan is so bad, it won’t do any real damage.
detaro 11y ago
You have a bit too positive image of us ;) Yes, it will spark discussions again, and certainly be tested in front of our highest courts, and probably fail in some aspects and send back to the drawing boards again after a few years, but I don't expect that much "outrage", at least as long as it remains a tool for few specialized cases.
- germanier 11y ago
  The constitutional court is expected to rule on this in April based on an older complaint which makes it even more egregious that they start using it now.
- thinkindie 11y ago
  I'm working in Germany (Berlin) and I was shocked by how often you see "cash-only" signs and how electronic payments are avoided on a privacy ground. Plus I saw the reaction from a German colleagues when it was a matter of communicating some personal data to a company that manages the salaries and I realised how Germans are obsessed (not necesserily in a bad way) about their privacy
  - brightsize 11y ago
    Yet they (the Germans I've known) don't seem to give a second thought to handing out their bank account numbers to businesses for electronic payment purposes. Discount card use seemed to be widespread as well despite all the tracking that inevitably comes with it. I never once got through the check-out stampede at Rewe without being asked if I had a card. I met some wantrepreneurs in Berlin who were hatching discount/reward card schemes of their own, not something that would attract much investor attention here in the States, unless of course it was "the Uber of discount cards". No, stop, that's not an Idea.
rbehrends 11y ago
Its legitimate use is so restricted (§20k BKAG [1] in conjunction with §4a BKAG [2]) that this would be a waste of everybody's time and effort; there's bigger fish to fry where privacy is concerned. Illegitimate use of such tools is (potentially) a different story, but that's part of the bigger problem of effectively controlling the BND and the other intelligence services. [1] https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/20k.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/20k.html [2] https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/4a.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/4a.html
TurboHaskal 11y ago
That will never happen. It's all posing. In my experience they are most likely obsessed with the privacy of others. Let's not forget they are the country of the Stasi, where your own colleagues will report to your manager about your little Facebook habit, where people yell at you on the spot for not recycling properly and where landlords demand intrusive credit records before renting.

considered how Germans are obsessed with privacy and state surveillance (see for example cash usage vs electronic payments), let's see a country going nut in 3 2 1 ...

kuschku 11y ago

We won’t really go nuts over this – the trojan is so bad, it won’t do any real damage.

detaro 11y ago

You have a bit too positive image of us ;) Yes, it will spark discussions again, and certainly be tested in front of our highest courts, and probably fail in some aspects and send back to the drawing boards again after a few years, but I don't expect that much "outrage", at least as long as it remains a tool for few specialized cases.

germanier 11y ago
The constitutional court is expected to rule on this in April based on an older complaint which makes it even more egregious that they start using it now.
thinkindie 11y ago
I'm working in Germany (Berlin) and I was shocked by how often you see "cash-only" signs and how electronic payments are avoided on a privacy ground. Plus I saw the reaction from a German colleagues when it was a matter of communicating some personal data to a company that manages the salaries and I realised how Germans are obsessed (not necesserily in a bad way) about their privacy
- brightsize 11y ago
  Yet they (the Germans I've known) don't seem to give a second thought to handing out their bank account numbers to businesses for electronic payment purposes. Discount card use seemed to be widespread as well despite all the tracking that inevitably comes with it. I never once got through the check-out stampede at Rewe without being asked if I had a card. I met some wantrepreneurs in Berlin who were hatching discount/reward card schemes of their own, not something that would attract much investor attention here in the States, unless of course it was "the Uber of discount cards". No, stop, that's not an Idea.

rbehrends 11y ago

Its legitimate use is so restricted (§20k BKAG [1] in conjunction with §4a BKAG [2]) that this would be a waste of everybody's time and effort; there's bigger fish to fry where privacy is concerned. Illegitimate use of such tools is (potentially) a different story, but that's part of the bigger problem of effectively controlling the BND and the other intelligence services. [1] https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/20k.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/20k.html [2] https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/4a.html https://dejure.org/gesetze/BKAG/4a.html

TurboHaskal 11y ago

That will never happen. It's all posing. In my experience they are most likely obsessed with the privacy of others. Let's not forget they are the country of the Stasi, where your own colleagues will report to your manager about your little Facebook habit, where people yell at you on the spot for not recycling properly and where landlords demand intrusive credit records before renting.