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The central role Jews played in the ideological formation and implementation of Bolshevism cannot be denied. Hand-waving about a "conspiracy theory" will not ch

The central role Jews played in the ideological formation and implementation of Bolshevism cannot be denied. Hand-waving about a "conspiracy theory" will not change the ethnicity of Lenin, Trotsky, Kamenev, Sokolnikov, or Zinoviev (five of the seven members of the first Politburo) nor that of Sverdlov (first Communist party leader and progenitor of the Red Terror) nor of the many Jews who rushed to join the Cheka (the majority in certain regions) to carry out atrocities against the Russian and then Soviet populace. (Not to mention the significance of, oh, Marx.) The financial contribution of financiers like Jacob Schiff, likely though it seems, is the only aspect that lies in the realm of the unproven. Referring to those who point out the facts as "conspiracy theorists" is a disingenuous response solely intended to deflect attention from reality and again marginalize and dismiss the Nazis as "irrational" moustache-twirling villains. You don't have to prove a "conspiracy" among the participants every time you apprehend a trend among a given population group for the trend to be true in a heuristic sense.

meowface 11y ago
I actually think it is fair to portray nearly all of the Nazi and Soviet leadership as villains. Just for somewhat different reasons. >You don't have to prove a "conspiracy" among the participants every time you apprehend a trend among a given population group for the trend to be true in a heuristic sense. Sure you do. Listing facts like these is only done because it comes with implicit accusations about intent and/or genetic flaws. Also, ad hominem though it may be, I am 99% certain you support Hitler and sing his praises on places like /pol/. It is true that many of the initial leaders in the Bolshevik movement were Jewish and the Cheka had heavy Jewish representation for a while (though this was greatly reduced under Stalin). However, presenting those facts alone does not convey the full picture. For example, the fact that many Jews were killed by the Bolsheviks, sometimes by ethnic Russiand and sometimes by other ethnic Jews. Or that pretty much none of the Jewish founders identified with Judaism ethnically or religiously and refused to abide by Jewish traditions, instead favoring a secular united philosophy with the rest of the country). The only reason to present those facts as you have is to imply either some sort of conspiracy, or some sort of inherent moral failing within all Jews which the Nazis justifiably "defended themselves" from.
- aksquestions 11y ago
  Self-interest again perfectly explains Jewish affinity for Marxism and support of Bolshevism. You are the one who is inserting conspiracies, schemes, and accusations of genetic inferiority into the mix. Jacob Schiff did not fund Japan in its war with Russia (and single-handedly secure that victory) for any other reason than his hatred of Tsarist Russia, which he viewed as hostile to Jews. Marxism gave an ideology to rally Jews and others of the era who considered themselves victims of traditional western civilization. Of course they would flock to it in outsized numbers and see a tremendous opportunity in the weak post-abdication provisional Russian government to establish the first Communist state, which they intended to use as a lever to upturn the entirety of Europe and have their ultimate revenge. When the weak see an opportunity to take power, they seize upon it just as the Bolsheviks did. When the weak can't have power, they bide their time by seeking to undermine those who do and Marxist ideology is useful in that endeavor as well. But, ah, that takes us to another "conspiracy theory" of "Cultural Marxism." We live in a time when one's authenticity as a human is measured by the extent of his (pardon, "zir") grievances and the traditional leaders of American society (white males) roll off most tongues as the designated oppressor class but dare anyone identify any similarity between this state of affairs and Marx and he (whoops, I mean "zie") is immediately adjudicated a raving delusional lunatic. And when you point out Jews count for an inordinate amount of the leadership of organizations that seek to create "multicultural" societies out of white countries, that seek to destabilize the traditional European idea of the nuclear family (no-fault divorce is, by the way, an entirely Bolshevik innovation), and that agitate and stir up direct action against Gentiles and their traditions and institutions --- well, now you've just become a criminal.
  - dang 11y ago
    Please stop using HN as a dumping ground for ideological boilerplate.
    - gd1 11y ago
      I've found it interesting to read and evaluate some viewpoints that I don't normally hear. Please stop demanding that HN be your own personal echo chamber.

meowface 11y ago

I actually think it is fair to portray nearly all of the Nazi and Soviet leadership as villains. Just for somewhat different reasons. >You don't have to prove a "conspiracy" among the participants every time you apprehend a trend among a given population group for the trend to be true in a heuristic sense. Sure you do. Listing facts like these is only done because it comes with implicit accusations about intent and/or genetic flaws. Also, ad hominem though it may be, I am 99% certain you support Hitler and sing his praises on places like /pol/. It is true that many of the initial leaders in the Bolshevik movement were Jewish and the Cheka had heavy Jewish representation for a while (though this was greatly reduced under Stalin). However, presenting those facts alone does not convey the full picture. For example, the fact that many Jews were killed by the Bolsheviks, sometimes by ethnic Russiand and sometimes by other ethnic Jews. Or that pretty much none of the Jewish founders identified with Judaism ethnically or religiously and refused to abide by Jewish traditions, instead favoring a secular united philosophy with the rest of the country). The only reason to present those facts as you have is to imply either some sort of conspiracy, or some sort of inherent moral failing within all Jews which the Nazis justifiably "defended themselves" from.

aksquestions 11y ago
Self-interest again perfectly explains Jewish affinity for Marxism and support of Bolshevism. You are the one who is inserting conspiracies, schemes, and accusations of genetic inferiority into the mix. Jacob Schiff did not fund Japan in its war with Russia (and single-handedly secure that victory) for any other reason than his hatred of Tsarist Russia, which he viewed as hostile to Jews. Marxism gave an ideology to rally Jews and others of the era who considered themselves victims of traditional western civilization. Of course they would flock to it in outsized numbers and see a tremendous opportunity in the weak post-abdication provisional Russian government to establish the first Communist state, which they intended to use as a lever to upturn the entirety of Europe and have their ultimate revenge. When the weak see an opportunity to take power, they seize upon it just as the Bolsheviks did. When the weak can't have power, they bide their time by seeking to undermine those who do and Marxist ideology is useful in that endeavor as well. But, ah, that takes us to another "conspiracy theory" of "Cultural Marxism." We live in a time when one's authenticity as a human is measured by the extent of his (pardon, "zir") grievances and the traditional leaders of American society (white males) roll off most tongues as the designated oppressor class but dare anyone identify any similarity between this state of affairs and Marx and he (whoops, I mean "zie") is immediately adjudicated a raving delusional lunatic. And when you point out Jews count for an inordinate amount of the leadership of organizations that seek to create "multicultural" societies out of white countries, that seek to destabilize the traditional European idea of the nuclear family (no-fault divorce is, by the way, an entirely Bolshevik innovation), and that agitate and stir up direct action against Gentiles and their traditions and institutions --- well, now you've just become a criminal.
- dang 11y ago
  Please stop using HN as a dumping ground for ideological boilerplate.
  - gd1 11y ago
    I've found it interesting to read and evaluate some viewpoints that I don't normally hear. Please stop demanding that HN be your own personal echo chamber.