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Just gonna throw this out there: what if instead of working on creating the myriad of "better languages" we focus on actual mastery of simpler languages like C.

Just gonna throw this out there: what if instead of working on creating the myriad of "better languages" we focus on actual mastery of simpler languages like C. And with that mastery: what about writing some machine-learning software that detects vulnerabilities as part of the build/release cycle. For instance: http://news.mit.edu/2016/faster-automatic-bug-repair-code-errors-0129 http://news.mit.edu/2016/faster-automatic-bug-repair-code-er... To detect vulnerabilities people need to be careful and follow best practices. If they can't do that well.. replace the people with software that's better and more efficient than the people. :)

dikaiosune 11y ago
Why can't we do both? On the one hand, we obviously need better techniques to maintain and improve upon code bases in languages like C. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon. But why shouldn't we also pursue improvement to the programming language state of the art? And if we find improvements, why shouldn't we use them? I'd be very sad if 50 years from now C (or Rust, for that matter) is considered the final word in programming languages.
jeswin 11y ago
>Just gonna throw this out there: what if instead of working on creating the myriad of "better languages" we focus on actual mastery of simpler languages like C. Relying on people being careful does not work for security, where one exploit is as good as many. OTOH, simpler languages can work well for performance, features and almost everywhere else; where even if you don't have specific language features to guard against common mistakes, the impact of an oversight is fairly localized or correctable.
- wangchow 11y ago
  Hence why I followed up with: "what about writing some machine-learning software that detects vulnerabilities as part of the build/release cycle"
ubernostrum 11y ago
we focus on actual mastery of simpler languages like C We've had 44 years for people to master the "simplicity" of C. Turns out, writing C is simple but writing safe, reliable C borders on the impossible even for the most masterful masters who ever mastered their mastery of the language. Better return on investment would be to work on killing C with something that doesn't have C's problems.
- wangchow 11y ago
  "but writing safe, reliable C borders on the impossible" I wouldn't go that far.. Just get a set of best practices and follow them. Write unit tests for every function. One of the best things about C is its extremely unit-testable. I followed up with the vulnerability-detection software to address any difficulties in security bugs. That would provide the benefits of C with a line of defense to correct vulnerabilities. "what about writing some machine-learning software that detects vulnerabilities as part of the build/release cycle"
dpc_pw 11y ago
Mastering C over using Rust is like mastering abacus, over using computer.
- wangchow 11y ago
  Funny :)

dikaiosune 11y ago

Why can't we do both? On the one hand, we obviously need better techniques to maintain and improve upon code bases in languages like C. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon. But why shouldn't we also pursue improvement to the programming language state of the art? And if we find improvements, why shouldn't we use them? I'd be very sad if 50 years from now C (or Rust, for that matter) is considered the final word in programming languages.

jeswin 11y ago

>Just gonna throw this out there: what if instead of working on creating the myriad of "better languages" we focus on actual mastery of simpler languages like C. Relying on people being careful does not work for security, where one exploit is as good as many. OTOH, simpler languages can work well for performance, features and almost everywhere else; where even if you don't have specific language features to guard against common mistakes, the impact of an oversight is fairly localized or correctable.

wangchow 11y ago
Hence why I followed up with: "what about writing some machine-learning software that detects vulnerabilities as part of the build/release cycle"

ubernostrum 11y ago

we focus on actual mastery of simpler languages like C We've had 44 years for people to master the "simplicity" of C. Turns out, writing C is simple but writing safe, reliable C borders on the impossible even for the most masterful masters who ever mastered their mastery of the language. Better return on investment would be to work on killing C with something that doesn't have C's problems.

wangchow 11y ago
"but writing safe, reliable C borders on the impossible" I wouldn't go that far.. Just get a set of best practices and follow them. Write unit tests for every function. One of the best things about C is its extremely unit-testable. I followed up with the vulnerability-detection software to address any difficulties in security bugs. That would provide the benefits of C with a line of defense to correct vulnerabilities. "what about writing some machine-learning software that detects vulnerabilities as part of the build/release cycle"

dpc_pw 11y ago

Mastering C over using Rust is like mastering abacus, over using computer.

wangchow 11y ago
Funny :)