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> rely on corporations to protect the people from an overreaching government? Corporations aren't fundamentally different from the government. Both are just gr

> rely on corporations to protect the people from an overreaching government? Corporations aren't fundamentally different from the government. Both are just groups of people, at an abstract level. It's actually not uncommon for local governments to literally exist as incorporated entities. Or for corporations to serve as the de facto government for a region. It's a relatively recent phenomenon that we view these as completely different concepts, but they're not as distinct as we often think. It's more accurate to think of government as a special case of corporations rather than a completely different concept.

rough-sea 11y ago
Well... yes, they are groups of people, but governments are rather different. Governments include everyone and act on their behalf. They are also responsible for creating and enforcing law. The distinction is valid.
- chimeracoder 11y ago
  > Governments include everyone and act on their behalf. They are also responsible for creating and enforcing law. It's more accurate to think of governments as a special case of corporations. Governments don't always "include everyone", and as we've seen, they definitely don't necessarily act on their constituents' behalf. In certain contexts, corporations have also been responsible for creating and enforcing law, even though that's not the context we are used to today in the US.
  - Avshalom 11y ago
    It's more accurate to think of corporations as a special case of governments, what with corporations being a recent legal structure created by governments.
lazaroclapp 11y ago
The difference is that corporations have (mostly) voluntary membership but unelected leadership, whereas nations have (mostly) involuntary membership and elected leadership. So it still stands that it should not be the expected state of affairs that corporations are seen as stewards of the common good, rather than the government. It really ought to be the other way around, and the fact that it isn't is sign of a problem. I don't remember who said it, but there is a quote along the lines of: "People should look to the private sector for growth, and to the government for justice. Increasingly, they look to the government for growth and to the private sector for justice." Edit: Found proper quote and source thanks to mbrock's pointing out where I likely heard it last. The quote is: "We have come to rely upon capitalism for justice and the government for economic stimulation, precisely the opposite of what reason would suggest." - Donald Kaul And it comes from here: http://articles.philly.com/1990-10-17/news/25891604_1_budget-mess-medicare-costs-national-ills http://articles.philly.com/1990-10-17/news/25891604_1_budget... (Timothy Taylor did quote Kaul in the podcast mentioned in the comment below)
- mbrock 11y ago
  Timothy Taylor talked about that idea as guest on the 1 February episode of EconTalk with Russ Roberts.
tbabb 11y ago
> Corporations aren't fundamentally different from the government. Yes, and that is the problem. Both are enormous institutions with tremendous wealth, resources, and power over individuals. A democracy is supposed to check this kind of power, but instead we're relying on it, only from a different source. The corporations' interests are currently aligned with the people's only by good fortune. When they're not, who will check them? Who will check the government? Corporate interests are not a sustainable, effective, or remotely wise defense of liberty. The fact that Cook and Zuckerberg are doing our fighting for us is evidence that the correct methods are not functioning properly.

rough-sea 11y ago

Well... yes, they are groups of people, but governments are rather different. Governments include everyone and act on their behalf. They are also responsible for creating and enforcing law. The distinction is valid.

chimeracoder 11y ago
> Governments include everyone and act on their behalf. They are also responsible for creating and enforcing law. It's more accurate to think of governments as a special case of corporations. Governments don't always "include everyone", and as we've seen, they definitely don't necessarily act on their constituents' behalf. In certain contexts, corporations have also been responsible for creating and enforcing law, even though that's not the context we are used to today in the US.
- Avshalom 11y ago
  It's more accurate to think of corporations as a special case of governments, what with corporations being a recent legal structure created by governments.

lazaroclapp 11y ago

The difference is that corporations have (mostly) voluntary membership but unelected leadership, whereas nations have (mostly) involuntary membership and elected leadership. So it still stands that it should not be the expected state of affairs that corporations are seen as stewards of the common good, rather than the government. It really ought to be the other way around, and the fact that it isn't is sign of a problem. I don't remember who said it, but there is a quote along the lines of: "People should look to the private sector for growth, and to the government for justice. Increasingly, they look to the government for growth and to the private sector for justice." Edit: Found proper quote and source thanks to mbrock's pointing out where I likely heard it last. The quote is: "We have come to rely upon capitalism for justice and the government for economic stimulation, precisely the opposite of what reason would suggest." - Donald Kaul And it comes from here: http://articles.philly.com/1990-10-17/news/25891604_1_budget-mess-medicare-costs-national-ills http://articles.philly.com/1990-10-17/news/25891604_1_budget... (Timothy Taylor did quote Kaul in the podcast mentioned in the comment below)

mbrock 11y ago
Timothy Taylor talked about that idea as guest on the 1 February episode of EconTalk with Russ Roberts.

tbabb 11y ago

> Corporations aren't fundamentally different from the government. Yes, and that is the problem. Both are enormous institutions with tremendous wealth, resources, and power over individuals. A democracy is supposed to check this kind of power, but instead we're relying on it, only from a different source. The corporations' interests are currently aligned with the people's only by good fortune. When they're not, who will check them? Who will check the government? Corporate interests are not a sustainable, effective, or remotely wise defense of liberty. The fact that Cook and Zuckerberg are doing our fighting for us is evidence that the correct methods are not functioning properly.