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To be clear, this article is advocating forcing people in poverty into gig economy jobs where there have been issues of low pay, terrible working conditions, an

To be clear, this article is advocating forcing people in poverty into gig economy jobs where there have been issues of low pay, terrible working conditions, and few if any employee protections. As a civilized country we should not demand that people give up their basic rights to earn a living.

pjc50 11y ago
Yeah, it's worked out pretty badly in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfare_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfare_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_%28Reilly%29_v_Secretary_of_State_for_Work_and_Pensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_%28Reilly%29_v_Secretary_of_... (the latter is particularly odious; having been told by a court that it owed people £130m in back-dated benefits, the government retroactively changed the law to avoid paying them. This is almost certainly a human rights violation but that litigation has not finished yet).
- crystalmeph 11y ago
  Yeah, making people work for free at for-profit businesses is not a valid precondition for welfare. I didn't see that in this article though. There has to be a social safety net, but I think it's a valid goal to encourage welfare recipients to work if they are able. One thing we should definitely do is reform the "vertical cliff" of payments, where once you make above a certain threshold, you stop receiving all benefits. That's a definite disincentive to get a better job past a certain point.
  - pjc50 11y ago
    The article talks about work requirements, but does not specify a minimum wage or minimum effective wage. Is someone who is signed up for one of these task apps but only given one hour work a week "working"? Not to mention that the flood of workers forced into this position will necessarily bid down the hourly rates.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      Of course it will bid down hourly rates. That will increase demand for such services, thereby allowing more people to enter the workforce [1]. Unemployed workers get jobs, consumers get more services - a win for everyone! [1] It's interesting how the gig economy can reduce sticky wages, making inflationary stimulus unnecessary.
yummyfajitas 11y ago
This is an extreme misrepresentation of the article. Anyone who doesn't want to work is free to stop telling the welfare office they want work but can't find it. No one is forced to do anything.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  I vehemently dislike when people say "no one is forced to do anything" in situations where, say, you will lose your food stamps if you do not do something. That is a force, the force of starvation.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    People who give up food stamps will be prevented from going out and seeking work on their own, and buying food with the proceeds? I totally missed that part of the article.
    - yequalsx 11y ago
      We don't live in a society in which there is enough paying jobs to employ all able bodied people. We also don't live in a society in which every apparently able bodied person has the emotional/intellectual/motivational capacity to work. I'm content to let some tax money pay for food/tv/etc. for those at the margins. I don't want those who don't want to work alongside disgruntled people who are there because they are forced to be there. I think it doesn't make sense in terms of overall societal emotional well being.
      - yummyfajitas 11y ago
        We don't live in a society in which there is enough paying jobs to employ all able bodied people. If that's true, then these folks will find no work via the gig economy. We also don't live in a society in which every apparently able bodied person has the emotional/intellectual/motivational capacity to work. The article has this to say about that issue: "Work requirements, however, should not unfairly punish people who are physically or mentally unable to complete gig economy jobs. The gig economy can often provide flexible work for those previously considered unable to work, but exemptions would still be available as needed." Did you read it? I don't want those who don't want to work alongside disgruntled people who are there because they are forced to be there. Welfare recipients are disgruntled people who are unpleasant to be around? I thought they were just regular folks who were down on their luck, who wanted to work but are unable to find a job.
maxerickson 11y ago
So why not better regulate the gig economy?

pjc50 11y ago

Yeah, it's worked out pretty badly in the UK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfare_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfare_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_%28Reilly%29_v_Secretary_of_State_for_Work_and_Pensions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_%28Reilly%29_v_Secretary_of_... (the latter is particularly odious; having been told by a court that it owed people £130m in back-dated benefits, the government retroactively changed the law to avoid paying them. This is almost certainly a human rights violation but that litigation has not finished yet).

crystalmeph 11y ago
Yeah, making people work for free at for-profit businesses is not a valid precondition for welfare. I didn't see that in this article though. There has to be a social safety net, but I think it's a valid goal to encourage welfare recipients to work if they are able. One thing we should definitely do is reform the "vertical cliff" of payments, where once you make above a certain threshold, you stop receiving all benefits. That's a definite disincentive to get a better job past a certain point.
- pjc50 11y ago
  The article talks about work requirements, but does not specify a minimum wage or minimum effective wage. Is someone who is signed up for one of these task apps but only given one hour work a week "working"? Not to mention that the flood of workers forced into this position will necessarily bid down the hourly rates.
  - yummyfajitas 11y ago
    Of course it will bid down hourly rates. That will increase demand for such services, thereby allowing more people to enter the workforce [1]. Unemployed workers get jobs, consumers get more services - a win for everyone! [1] It's interesting how the gig economy can reduce sticky wages, making inflationary stimulus unnecessary.

yummyfajitas 11y ago

This is an extreme misrepresentation of the article. Anyone who doesn't want to work is free to stop telling the welfare office they want work but can't find it. No one is forced to do anything.

astazangasta 11y ago
I vehemently dislike when people say "no one is forced to do anything" in situations where, say, you will lose your food stamps if you do not do something. That is a force, the force of starvation.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  People who give up food stamps will be prevented from going out and seeking work on their own, and buying food with the proceeds? I totally missed that part of the article.
  - yequalsx 11y ago
    We don't live in a society in which there is enough paying jobs to employ all able bodied people. We also don't live in a society in which every apparently able bodied person has the emotional/intellectual/motivational capacity to work. I'm content to let some tax money pay for food/tv/etc. for those at the margins. I don't want those who don't want to work alongside disgruntled people who are there because they are forced to be there. I think it doesn't make sense in terms of overall societal emotional well being.
    - yummyfajitas 11y ago
      We don't live in a society in which there is enough paying jobs to employ all able bodied people. If that's true, then these folks will find no work via the gig economy. We also don't live in a society in which every apparently able bodied person has the emotional/intellectual/motivational capacity to work. The article has this to say about that issue: "Work requirements, however, should not unfairly punish people who are physically or mentally unable to complete gig economy jobs. The gig economy can often provide flexible work for those previously considered unable to work, but exemptions would still be available as needed." Did you read it? I don't want those who don't want to work alongside disgruntled people who are there because they are forced to be there. Welfare recipients are disgruntled people who are unpleasant to be around? I thought they were just regular folks who were down on their luck, who wanted to work but are unable to find a job.

maxerickson 11y ago

So why not better regulate the gig economy?