5 ms·

Silicon Valley tech worker fired after blogging about starving

39 points by andygambles 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
sarciszewski 11y ago
Person: "I'm starving and barely able to get by working for Yelp in SF." Yelp: "You're fired." (Good luck paying rent without a job.) Yelp CEO: "The cost of living is too high here, so we're going to instead move offices to Arizona and pay the same wage." Does this mean that Yelp is going to... a. Help all of its employees move to AZ where they can enjoy a lower cost of living? b. Fire all of its employees and hire replacements in AZ? c. Something else? Because if they're going with option B, wow. The cost of living in SF is one of the reasons I refuse to ever move there for work, but it seems like a scapegoat in this case. Why not just pay your employees a livable wage to begin with?
- lesdeuxmagots 11y ago
  Eventually, probably. There's a reason why most companies don't scale their customer rep teams in high cost areas like the bay area to begin with. Many companies either offshore or open their customer rep centers in places like Arizona or the Midwest where the low wage work will still be a living wage. It's inherently low wage work, and paying significantly above market wage for low skill labor is something businesses are understandably reticent to do.
- qbrass 11y ago
  They'll hire entry-level workers in AZ, quit hiring them in SF, and let the high churn rate take care of the transition.
- saganus 11y ago
  I think it would be more likely to do the transfer in a more phased way. For example, if they start to need more low-wage positions you start hiring directly in Arizona, and when someone leaves the SF office you just don't hire someone there again, you re-open the position in your other location. Do this for some time and at some point you are probably going to have only a few employees left which would be easier to fire. So it's kind of like option B except not everyone at a time.
carl_ 11y ago
http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/02/21/2035225/yelp-employee-posts-open-letter-about-cost-of-living-and-low-wages-gets-fired http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/02/21/2035225/yelp-employe... > And I am sure it had nothing to do with her getting alcohol delivered to her while at work [archive.is] or bragging about making sexual jokes to the companies twitter account [imgur.com]. It's either quite a coincidence or she knew she was in trouble and wrote the letter to try and make the company look worse.
- qstnblethics 11y ago
  Why would getting alcohol delivered to work be an issue?
  - iamdave 11y ago
    Well, I-personally-don't know if "issue" is really the right word to use. I will say, as someone who drinks that brand of Bourbon quite regularly-the act causes me to ask if she's spending her money wisely living in one of the most expensive cities in America if she's having such a hard time making a livable wage that she's also having to eat at work constantly. Maybe buying mid-tier bourbon that can run anywhere from $28-$40 (depending on the size) on liquor isn't the best way to behave financially. I wont comment on what this means as far as her relationship with Yelp, since I don't know their policies on drinking at the office. I suppose then, if there is an issue, it's one of the credibility of the source.
    - ubercore 11y ago
      We don't get to judge her financial acumen. She's young, she buys booze. Big whoop. Maybe it was for a present for a sibling's wedding. Maybe a close friend. Maybe she just makes bad financial choices. That's not the story here.
      - iamdave 11y ago
        You know what, you're absolutely right. We don't get to judge her her financial acumen. We don't get to judge her on anything really that doesn't impact other people in a negative fashion. I'm just evaluating various externalizes of her situation and how she responded to them and considering how they may ostensibly contribute to that situation improving, or failing to improve accordingly. So yeah you're right, it's not the story here...it's just something ancillary. I suppose it's a good thing I was only answering tangentially hypothetical question.
Piskvorrr 11y ago
CEO: "I've not been personally involved in Talia being let go and it was not because she posted a Medium letter directed at me." A coincidence is possible, but doesn't sound at all likely ("the CEO didn't personally get involved" sounds like a very specific claim). It is, OTOH, indeed possible that other events were at work - "post hoc, ergo propter hoc;" that the two events might have another (undisclosed) common cause. In other words: the data we have is of the "he said, she said" type...and a lot of emotional filters on all sides (inc. the readers). A strange game.
iamdave 11y ago
I recall seeing elsewhere that the employee wasn't fired for blogging about starving, but that she was found to have used her personal account to leave-in some cases-distasteful comments on some customer pages, and outright offensive ones on others. Attempting to recall and track down where I saw this. edit: user carl_13 has links in his comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11151531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11151531
zepto 11y ago
This partly shows what a poor term 'tech worker' has become. "Customer service agent fired after blogging about low wages" is a story that could be written anywhere in the country.
quad99 11y ago
I would think an up front calculation of cost of living in San Francisco (in top 5 highest in US) vs offered salary would show it was not feasible to take that job.
- instantaneous 11y ago
  Yes, or she might have considered getting a roommate.
- kdamken 11y ago
  Whoa. Hold on there buddy. Are you implying that someone actually take personal responsibility for their actions and financial decision making? You better hope that twitter doesn't get word of this.
  - pigpaws 11y ago
    English, Sir or Ma'am. We speak English in this forum. I do not know what you're saying as it is foreign to me. Please refrain from that bothersome language as we are all about communication here.
- mcphage 11y ago
  > I would think an up front calculation of cost of living in San Francisco (in top 5 highest in US) vs offered salary would show it was not feasible to take that job. So then why is Yelp offering it? Why do you think they offer that job at a salary that you feel a simple calculation reveals to be insufficient?
- tortoise_face 11y ago
  Did you consider that maybe making a tiny wage is better than no wage at all? Even in SF? Did you consider that maybe she has personal/family reasons to live where she does? It just seems a little ridiculous to suggest someone just "get another job" somewhere else without knowing basically anything about their situation. It also deflects from the issue that Yelp is paying these ridiculously low wages to their full time employees.
bigtones 11y ago
I don't understand this - Yelp provides free breakfast and lunch to all employees in their SF Office. Why would she be starving if her employer feeds her two meals per day for free ?
- instantaneous 11y ago
  Probably not actually starving: http://alotofrice.pixieset.com/thatsalotofrice/ http://alotofrice.pixieset.com/thatsalotofrice/
kdamken 11y ago
Nice lie of a title. Here's the real question: why did she chose to work in the most expensive city in the country? What was she expecting? Yes, customer service reps don't get paid well. Why? Because literally anyone who can answer the phone and not be rude can do it. The required skill set for it is very low and it's easy to find replacements, so it's not going to be a well paid position. If you read her article, you'll learn she majored in english (which is fine, but you should go into that knowing you're not going to make much money), and immediately got herself in a bunch of debt after college. She clearly isn't the best at financial decision making. I wouldn't want to live in the bay area on a dev salary, let alone on a service rep one. No one is forcing her to make bad decisions. I can't stand people complaining about the status quo when they make horrible decisions with their money and life choices. And just to note, I was a customer service rep for over two years, so I know what the job entails. I eventually realized it wasn't a career, and decided to teach myself to code. Even if I hadn't though, I'd still be doing okay by: 1. Not spending more than I earn. 2. Not living in a ridiculously expensive city without an equally ridiculous income.
- mcphage 11y ago
  > Yes, customer service reps don't get paid well. Why? Because literally anyone who can answer the phone and not be rude can do it. The required skill set for it is very low and it's easy to find replacements, so it's not going to be a well paid position. Why are they offering that position in the most expensive city in the country? If they're not going to pay enough for it, who taking the job will be able to afford to live on the salary?
  - kdamken 11y ago
    But they can offer whatever they want as allowed by law. They're a business, not a charity. People can choose to apply and work there, or not. No one is forcing them to. I would recommend looking through her post and also some of the links posted. It looks like she wasn't living within her means. When that's the case you can either: 1. Work to increase your means 2. Reduce your expenses 3. Sink deeper and deeper into a pit of debt and despair
dang 11y ago
Discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11138086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11138086 and many other posts.

39 points by andygambles 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Person: "I'm starving and barely able to get by working for Yelp in SF." Yelp: "You're fired." (Good luck paying rent without a job.) Yelp CEO: "The cost of living is too high here, so we're going to instead move offices to Arizona and pay the same wage." Does this mean that Yelp is going to... a. Help all of its employees move to AZ where they can enjoy a lower cost of living? b. Fire all of its employees and hire replacements in AZ? c. Something else? Because if they're going with option B, wow. The cost of living in SF is one of the reasons I refuse to ever move there for work, but it seems like a scapegoat in this case. Why not just pay your employees a livable wage to begin with?

lesdeuxmagots 11y ago
Eventually, probably. There's a reason why most companies don't scale their customer rep teams in high cost areas like the bay area to begin with. Many companies either offshore or open their customer rep centers in places like Arizona or the Midwest where the low wage work will still be a living wage. It's inherently low wage work, and paying significantly above market wage for low skill labor is something businesses are understandably reticent to do.
qbrass 11y ago
They'll hire entry-level workers in AZ, quit hiring them in SF, and let the high churn rate take care of the transition.
saganus 11y ago
I think it would be more likely to do the transfer in a more phased way. For example, if they start to need more low-wage positions you start hiring directly in Arizona, and when someone leaves the SF office you just don't hire someone there again, you re-open the position in your other location. Do this for some time and at some point you are probably going to have only a few employees left which would be easier to fire. So it's kind of like option B except not everyone at a time.

carl_ 11y ago

http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/02/21/2035225/yelp-employee-posts-open-letter-about-cost-of-living-and-low-wages-gets-fired http://news.slashdot.org/story/16/02/21/2035225/yelp-employe... > And I am sure it had nothing to do with her getting alcohol delivered to her while at work [archive.is] or bragging about making sexual jokes to the companies twitter account [imgur.com]. It's either quite a coincidence or she knew she was in trouble and wrote the letter to try and make the company look worse.

qstnblethics 11y ago
Why would getting alcohol delivered to work be an issue?
- iamdave 11y ago
  Well, I-personally-don't know if "issue" is really the right word to use. I will say, as someone who drinks that brand of Bourbon quite regularly-the act causes me to ask if she's spending her money wisely living in one of the most expensive cities in America if she's having such a hard time making a livable wage that she's also having to eat at work constantly. Maybe buying mid-tier bourbon that can run anywhere from $28-$40 (depending on the size) on liquor isn't the best way to behave financially. I wont comment on what this means as far as her relationship with Yelp, since I don't know their policies on drinking at the office. I suppose then, if there is an issue, it's one of the credibility of the source.
  - ubercore 11y ago
    We don't get to judge her financial acumen. She's young, she buys booze. Big whoop. Maybe it was for a present for a sibling's wedding. Maybe a close friend. Maybe she just makes bad financial choices. That's not the story here.
    - iamdave 11y ago
      You know what, you're absolutely right. We don't get to judge her her financial acumen. We don't get to judge her on anything really that doesn't impact other people in a negative fashion. I'm just evaluating various externalizes of her situation and how she responded to them and considering how they may ostensibly contribute to that situation improving, or failing to improve accordingly. So yeah you're right, it's not the story here...it's just something ancillary. I suppose it's a good thing I was only answering tangentially hypothetical question.

Piskvorrr 11y ago

CEO: "I've not been personally involved in Talia being let go and it was not because she posted a Medium letter directed at me." A coincidence is possible, but doesn't sound at all likely ("the CEO didn't personally get involved" sounds like a very specific claim). It is, OTOH, indeed possible that other events were at work - "post hoc, ergo propter hoc;" that the two events might have another (undisclosed) common cause. In other words: the data we have is of the "he said, she said" type...and a lot of emotional filters on all sides (inc. the readers). A strange game.

iamdave 11y ago

I recall seeing elsewhere that the employee wasn't fired for blogging about starving, but that she was found to have used her personal account to leave-in some cases-distasteful comments on some customer pages, and outright offensive ones on others. Attempting to recall and track down where I saw this. edit: user carl_13 has links in his comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11151531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11151531

zepto 11y ago

This partly shows what a poor term 'tech worker' has become. "Customer service agent fired after blogging about low wages" is a story that could be written anywhere in the country.

quad99 11y ago

I would think an up front calculation of cost of living in San Francisco (in top 5 highest in US) vs offered salary would show it was not feasible to take that job.

instantaneous 11y ago
Yes, or she might have considered getting a roommate.
kdamken 11y ago
Whoa. Hold on there buddy. Are you implying that someone actually take personal responsibility for their actions and financial decision making? You better hope that twitter doesn't get word of this.
- pigpaws 11y ago
  English, Sir or Ma'am. We speak English in this forum. I do not know what you're saying as it is foreign to me. Please refrain from that bothersome language as we are all about communication here.
mcphage 11y ago
> I would think an up front calculation of cost of living in San Francisco (in top 5 highest in US) vs offered salary would show it was not feasible to take that job. So then why is Yelp offering it? Why do you think they offer that job at a salary that you feel a simple calculation reveals to be insufficient?
tortoise_face 11y ago
Did you consider that maybe making a tiny wage is better than no wage at all? Even in SF? Did you consider that maybe she has personal/family reasons to live where she does? It just seems a little ridiculous to suggest someone just "get another job" somewhere else without knowing basically anything about their situation. It also deflects from the issue that Yelp is paying these ridiculously low wages to their full time employees.

bigtones 11y ago

I don't understand this - Yelp provides free breakfast and lunch to all employees in their SF Office. Why would she be starving if her employer feeds her two meals per day for free ?

instantaneous 11y ago
Probably not actually starving: http://alotofrice.pixieset.com/thatsalotofrice/ http://alotofrice.pixieset.com/thatsalotofrice/

kdamken 11y ago

Nice lie of a title. Here's the real question: why did she chose to work in the most expensive city in the country? What was she expecting? Yes, customer service reps don't get paid well. Why? Because literally anyone who can answer the phone and not be rude can do it. The required skill set for it is very low and it's easy to find replacements, so it's not going to be a well paid position. If you read her article, you'll learn she majored in english (which is fine, but you should go into that knowing you're not going to make much money), and immediately got herself in a bunch of debt after college. She clearly isn't the best at financial decision making. I wouldn't want to live in the bay area on a dev salary, let alone on a service rep one. No one is forcing her to make bad decisions. I can't stand people complaining about the status quo when they make horrible decisions with their money and life choices. And just to note, I was a customer service rep for over two years, so I know what the job entails. I eventually realized it wasn't a career, and decided to teach myself to code. Even if I hadn't though, I'd still be doing okay by: 1. Not spending more than I earn. 2. Not living in a ridiculously expensive city without an equally ridiculous income.

mcphage 11y ago
> Yes, customer service reps don't get paid well. Why? Because literally anyone who can answer the phone and not be rude can do it. The required skill set for it is very low and it's easy to find replacements, so it's not going to be a well paid position. Why are they offering that position in the most expensive city in the country? If they're not going to pay enough for it, who taking the job will be able to afford to live on the salary?
- kdamken 11y ago
  But they can offer whatever they want as allowed by law. They're a business, not a charity. People can choose to apply and work there, or not. No one is forcing them to. I would recommend looking through her post and also some of the links posted. It looks like she wasn't living within her means. When that's the case you can either: 1. Work to increase your means 2. Reduce your expenses 3. Sink deeper and deeper into a pit of debt and despair

dang 11y ago

Discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11138086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11138086 and many other posts.