There's a lot of false disagreement going on in these threads. It should be noticed that talking about meditation, and the resultant discussions about the uses

There's a lot of false disagreement going on in these threads. It should be noticed that talking about meditation, and the resultant discussions about the uses of meditation, the strange experiences of no-self/universality/etc, the nature of the self-ing mind, et al are all ultimately recursive. At the edges of all of these conversations is self-cancelling language, and if one is to get too hung up on linguistic explanations of these things, one is almost surely going to end up arguing with herself. Meditation is useful, possibly life transforming, and the techniques and effects are available to most people. Unfortunately, this claim exists in a grey area between/overlapping objectivity and subjectivity, and can only really be tested in the laboratories of our own minds.