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Fourteen hour shifts? Fourteen hour shifts!? In my day we'd work from 1AM until 3AM the following morning, go to sleep for -2 hours, wake up and do it all over

Fourteen hour shifts? Fourteen hour shifts!? In my day we'd work from 1AM until 3AM the following morning, go to sleep for -2 hours, wake up and do it all over again! We were paid in 19th century New Zealand shillings and had to pay all of it back for living on the boss's premises! (Sorry, had to throw a Monty Python reference there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo) I don't believe just because something was done one way before, means it should affect how things are now. If we believe the way "something is" is fundamentally wrong - just because it has been that way (or worse) should not provide be a valid argument against said "something". Kind of fits in to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

Turing_Machine 11y ago
Yes, fourteen hour shifts. For real. The fish guts and freezing cold water were also for real. As was the rusty trailer I shared with four other guys. The point here being that Talia, with her (now former) job answering the phone in a nice warm room, and commuting to her nice warm apartment in the nice trendy Bay Area, has it better than probably 90% of the human race has it today, much less in the past. Her apparently genuine surprise at being fired after publicly slagging off her employer is just the icing on her entitlement cake.
- Mandatum 11y ago
  We should really compare "like with like". Yes, you're adding perspective to the argument. Perspective though fair, does not add value to the argument. It simply dismisses it altogether. Example: John works a median job, earning a median salary and pays a median amount for rent and living costs. However John's boss has recently made him work 2 additional hours of overtime each day for the past 3 months. But on the other hand.. Mary is a 4 year old African toddler who works 20 hours a day sifting through muddy water for specs of diamond. If she falls asleep or passes out she will surely drown. If she collects too small amount of diamond for her boss, she will have a finger amputated. John should not complain and be happy to not live in such terrible conditions. -- I believe Talia was right to complain. However bringing her employer into the complaint, in a very targeting and "shaming" manner, was not a smart move (current career-wise). She works in conditions thousands of people are familiar with across the world. Her message resonates. But the only reason it is heard, is because she went about it the way she did. If she had posted an anonymous, employer-anonymous article with the same content.. This would not be news. There may be a discussion between 5-10 people on the internet, but no major news site would publish on it. Was she right in doing what she did? It depends on your perspective. I believe it is completely fair, she didn't fabricate her statements - simply saying (though somewhat emotive) facts. The company she works for on the other hand wouldn't see it that way.
  - Turing_Machine 11y ago
    You're setting up straw men. I was comparing two unskilled, entry-level jobs in the United States, so African toddlers don't really enter into it. If Talia had more sense and less entitlement, she would have found some roommates or (failing that) not taken a job that didn't pay enough to support her. She wasn't forced to move to the Bay Area at gunpoint, dude. I do have sympathy for those people who've been living in the Bay Area for a long time, and have had a heavy squeeze put on them by the rising prices. That doesn't apply to Talia, though.
    - Mandatum 11y ago
      > If Talia had more sense and less entitlement, she would have found some roommates or (failing that) not taken a job that didn't pay enough to support her. She wasn't forced to move to the Bay Area at gunpoint, dude. I agree with you here, but I still don't think comparing a 14-hour-day fish-cannery job in Alaska (which if it's anything like it is here, is also seasonal and catered for "travellers") to a cushy CS job in the Bay Area is remotely "similar".

Turing_Machine 11y ago

Yes, fourteen hour shifts. For real. The fish guts and freezing cold water were also for real. As was the rusty trailer I shared with four other guys. The point here being that Talia, with her (now former) job answering the phone in a nice warm room, and commuting to her nice warm apartment in the nice trendy Bay Area, has it better than probably 90% of the human race has it today, much less in the past. Her apparently genuine surprise at being fired after publicly slagging off her employer is just the icing on her entitlement cake.

Mandatum 11y ago
We should really compare "like with like". Yes, you're adding perspective to the argument. Perspective though fair, does not add value to the argument. It simply dismisses it altogether. Example: John works a median job, earning a median salary and pays a median amount for rent and living costs. However John's boss has recently made him work 2 additional hours of overtime each day for the past 3 months. But on the other hand.. Mary is a 4 year old African toddler who works 20 hours a day sifting through muddy water for specs of diamond. If she falls asleep or passes out she will surely drown. If she collects too small amount of diamond for her boss, she will have a finger amputated. John should not complain and be happy to not live in such terrible conditions. -- I believe Talia was right to complain. However bringing her employer into the complaint, in a very targeting and "shaming" manner, was not a smart move (current career-wise). She works in conditions thousands of people are familiar with across the world. Her message resonates. But the only reason it is heard, is because she went about it the way she did. If she had posted an anonymous, employer-anonymous article with the same content.. This would not be news. There may be a discussion between 5-10 people on the internet, but no major news site would publish on it. Was she right in doing what she did? It depends on your perspective. I believe it is completely fair, she didn't fabricate her statements - simply saying (though somewhat emotive) facts. The company she works for on the other hand wouldn't see it that way.
- Turing_Machine 11y ago
  You're setting up straw men. I was comparing two unskilled, entry-level jobs in the United States, so African toddlers don't really enter into it. If Talia had more sense and less entitlement, she would have found some roommates or (failing that) not taken a job that didn't pay enough to support her. She wasn't forced to move to the Bay Area at gunpoint, dude. I do have sympathy for those people who've been living in the Bay Area for a long time, and have had a heavy squeeze put on them by the rising prices. That doesn't apply to Talia, though.
  - Mandatum 11y ago
    > If Talia had more sense and less entitlement, she would have found some roommates or (failing that) not taken a job that didn't pay enough to support her. She wasn't forced to move to the Bay Area at gunpoint, dude. I agree with you here, but I still don't think comparing a 14-hour-day fish-cannery job in Alaska (which if it's anything like it is here, is also seasonal and catered for "travellers") to a cushy CS job in the Bay Area is remotely "similar".