4 ms·

Are there any precedents where the UK has placed a gag order on a foreign company, and successfully extradited and imprisoned a CEO for violating said gag order

Are there any precedents where the UK has placed a gag order on a foreign company, and successfully extradited and imprisoned a CEO for violating said gag order?

pjc50 11y ago
That's a privilege reserved for America, but the nearest I can think of is the Matrix-Churchill fiasco ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq ) in which the directors were very nearly jailed by the customs authorities for doing things which they were ordered to do by the intelligence services.
- formatkid 11y ago
  That is interesting. I honestly believe America wouldn't extradite or even convict a CEO like Tim Cook but in this climate who knows. @pjc50 Could you imagine a trade embargo between tech companies and the UK OR a ban on the sale of phones that do not adhere to the newly proposed laws?
  - pjc50 11y ago
    There was the whole John Delorean weird business, although that was allegedly plain old cocaine dealing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean#Arrest_and_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean#Arrest_and_trial and there's allegations of someone else having their business destroyed for refusing to cooperate with surveillance but I cannot remember the name. I can't imagine the UK having a tech embargo that affected iPhones; that's the kind of stupidity that brings down governments. However, I should note that the ARM TrustZone technology that's critical to the iPhone security is developed in the UK...
    - formatkid 11y ago
      "that's the kind of stupidity that brings down governments" - Do you know who David Cameron is? That John Delorean is some weird business. Not sure how it pertains to extradition re: gag orders. I think when it comes to laws around murder, drugs, and other organised crime it quickly becomes clear that cooperation is important and most countries would support a mutual extradition. I believe that when it comes to laws surrounding political issues; freedom of speech, privacy, removal of encryption (for all phones without warrant or guilt) etc., some foreign companies may not feel obligated to partner up as it were. And rightly so. You can say 10% of the phone is created in China with 30% of the R&D in Poland and 5% design in LA and so on. That division of labour doesn't really matter and it's not really the point. If the company that owns and sells the product remains outside of the UK then I very much doubt the gag order portion would be enforceable. In fact, you would just need to schedule technology to prevent the sale of none compliance. We do that in all other industries and it would be the easiest way to go. You could argue that tech companies would still comply with warrants and you could even argue that the they could eventually add backdoors BUT you can't say the gag order would be enforceable. Companies like Samsung and Apple sell to countries other than the UK. tldr; UK Gov demands a backdoor in the iPhone. Apple reject the gag order and backdoor. Why should the UK demand foreign companies weaken foreign technology sold domestically that would globally affect not only the sale of the product but the trust of consumers in other countries where privacy is paramount. And how or whom do they arrest when nobody complies? ;)

Are there any precedents where the UK has placed a gag order on a foreign company, and successfully extradited and imprisoned a CEO for violating said gag order?

pjc50 11y ago

That's a privilege reserved for America, but the nearest I can think of is the Matrix-Churchill fiasco ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq ) in which the directors were very nearly jailed by the customs authorities for doing things which they were ordered to do by the intelligence services.

formatkid 11y ago
That is interesting. I honestly believe America wouldn't extradite or even convict a CEO like Tim Cook but in this climate who knows. @pjc50 Could you imagine a trade embargo between tech companies and the UK OR a ban on the sale of phones that do not adhere to the newly proposed laws?
- pjc50 11y ago
  There was the whole John Delorean weird business, although that was allegedly plain old cocaine dealing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean#Arrest_and_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_DeLorean#Arrest_and_trial and there's allegations of someone else having their business destroyed for refusing to cooperate with surveillance but I cannot remember the name. I can't imagine the UK having a tech embargo that affected iPhones; that's the kind of stupidity that brings down governments. However, I should note that the ARM TrustZone technology that's critical to the iPhone security is developed in the UK...
  - formatkid 11y ago
    "that's the kind of stupidity that brings down governments" - Do you know who David Cameron is? That John Delorean is some weird business. Not sure how it pertains to extradition re: gag orders. I think when it comes to laws around murder, drugs, and other organised crime it quickly becomes clear that cooperation is important and most countries would support a mutual extradition. I believe that when it comes to laws surrounding political issues; freedom of speech, privacy, removal of encryption (for all phones without warrant or guilt) etc., some foreign companies may not feel obligated to partner up as it were. And rightly so. You can say 10% of the phone is created in China with 30% of the R&D in Poland and 5% design in LA and so on. That division of labour doesn't really matter and it's not really the point. If the company that owns and sells the product remains outside of the UK then I very much doubt the gag order portion would be enforceable. In fact, you would just need to schedule technology to prevent the sale of none compliance. We do that in all other industries and it would be the easiest way to go. You could argue that tech companies would still comply with warrants and you could even argue that the they could eventually add backdoors BUT you can't say the gag order would be enforceable. Companies like Samsung and Apple sell to countries other than the UK. tldr; UK Gov demands a backdoor in the iPhone. Apple reject the gag order and backdoor. Why should the UK demand foreign companies weaken foreign technology sold domestically that would globally affect not only the sale of the product but the trust of consumers in other countries where privacy is paramount. And how or whom do they arrest when nobody complies? ;)