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To paraphrase Nietzsche, to live is to experience stressors. The changes you're talking about might (might!) lower the number of stressors in people's lives and

To paraphrase Nietzsche, to live is to experience stressors. The changes you're talking about might (might!) lower the number of stressors in people's lives and thus have an overall positive impact on mental health, but a better path toward that goal, in my opinion, is to encourage people to seek the help necessary to deal with stressors. Edit: you did mention making mental healthcare accessible, but it wasn't the brunt of your message.

miserable1980 11y ago
When I started software (90s), the tech industry didn't pay that well but did have a strong geek culture. I felt my managers didn't understand the work I did but they left me alone to do it. Timelines were in months and you largely self-managed yourself. Tools weren't great but didn't change very much. Integration testing was done by a separate QA function and programmers would slack off a little bit when it came to proper unit testing and documentation. I miss that world (with perhaps one exception - that has to do with women in the field). Today, we have: 1) Insane deadline pressures 2) Managers asking for constant status updates 3) A general culture where people are on call outside of work hours or supposed to be reachable 4) While programmer salaries are high, they have essentially kept up with inflation. Under fields are generally worse off I admit. 5) No QA depts for the most part 6) Expectation that developers need to be more "professional" rather than produce great software. 7) Reduced employment mobility because developer interviews seem to have an insane standard. As a reference, for most jobs I got until 2005, I had a 30 minute to 1 hour interview with no coding questions. 8) 2-3 week shipping cycles (I posit scrum deadlines are like shipping deadline of old) 9) constant change in the tools of the trade. IT JUST NEVER ENDS. So what happened? I think the end of the dot com era produced a few elite companies like Google. There was a cargo cult mentality that has turned most of software development into the same. When people ask, I don't recommend a career in software any more. It definitely leads to unhealthy habits in average/above average people and, unless you have strong social ties, probably induces depression in many people. If you are an elite, Harvard-level, Google-level person, sure .. welcome to the gauntlet and have fun. For sane, average/above average people, I don't know what to say. There are few other paths that lead to financial stability these days. The software industry gives decent financial stability but extols a heavy cost in many.
mojuba 11y ago
Let's take an edge case: you are a slave in America, 18th century. Here, some antidepressants and some free psychotherapy time for you. Happier now?
- solipsism 11y ago
  Quite an edge case to be both a slave in 18th century America and in the software development industry, which is what we're talking about here.
  - mojuba 11y ago
    I was responding to this: > a better path toward that goal, in my opinion, is to encourage people to seek the help necessary to deal with stressors There is almost always a flip side to your personal stress: some dissonance, disharmony in the outside world. Some of those who feel stressed go out and fight for harmony in the world, and they lose. That's what we are talking about here.
    - solipsism 11y ago
      This is meaningless. Stress is a natural state. Human lives have forever been stressful, because stress exists for a purpose. To set out to eliminate all "dissonances" and "disharmonies" is a fool's errand. The wisest people from vastly different cultures -- from Nietzsche who I quote above to the Buddha -- have recognized that suffering is inevitable. Sure, some stressors can be dealt with. But others can't. If someone is having trouble coping, and he's a software developer in a developed country who has free time to write blogs, the best advice to that person is to seek help learning how to cope.
      - mojuba 11y ago
        By "developed" countries you mean those deeply indebted societies driven by the fear of losing a job? Where software managers and founders push to the limits because they have the leverage? Of course you can talk to a therapist or read some Nietsche (or some Buddhism) and your problems will go away.

miserable1980 11y ago

When I started software (90s), the tech industry didn't pay that well but did have a strong geek culture. I felt my managers didn't understand the work I did but they left me alone to do it. Timelines were in months and you largely self-managed yourself. Tools weren't great but didn't change very much. Integration testing was done by a separate QA function and programmers would slack off a little bit when it came to proper unit testing and documentation. I miss that world (with perhaps one exception - that has to do with women in the field). Today, we have: 1) Insane deadline pressures 2) Managers asking for constant status updates 3) A general culture where people are on call outside of work hours or supposed to be reachable 4) While programmer salaries are high, they have essentially kept up with inflation. Under fields are generally worse off I admit. 5) No QA depts for the most part 6) Expectation that developers need to be more "professional" rather than produce great software. 7) Reduced employment mobility because developer interviews seem to have an insane standard. As a reference, for most jobs I got until 2005, I had a 30 minute to 1 hour interview with no coding questions. 8) 2-3 week shipping cycles (I posit scrum deadlines are like shipping deadline of old) 9) constant change in the tools of the trade. IT JUST NEVER ENDS. So what happened? I think the end of the dot com era produced a few elite companies like Google. There was a cargo cult mentality that has turned most of software development into the same. When people ask, I don't recommend a career in software any more. It definitely leads to unhealthy habits in average/above average people and, unless you have strong social ties, probably induces depression in many people. If you are an elite, Harvard-level, Google-level person, sure .. welcome to the gauntlet and have fun. For sane, average/above average people, I don't know what to say. There are few other paths that lead to financial stability these days. The software industry gives decent financial stability but extols a heavy cost in many.

mojuba 11y ago

Let's take an edge case: you are a slave in America, 18th century. Here, some antidepressants and some free psychotherapy time for you. Happier now?

solipsism 11y ago
Quite an edge case to be both a slave in 18th century America and in the software development industry, which is what we're talking about here.
- mojuba 11y ago
  I was responding to this: > a better path toward that goal, in my opinion, is to encourage people to seek the help necessary to deal with stressors There is almost always a flip side to your personal stress: some dissonance, disharmony in the outside world. Some of those who feel stressed go out and fight for harmony in the world, and they lose. That's what we are talking about here.
  - solipsism 11y ago
    This is meaningless. Stress is a natural state. Human lives have forever been stressful, because stress exists for a purpose. To set out to eliminate all "dissonances" and "disharmonies" is a fool's errand. The wisest people from vastly different cultures -- from Nietzsche who I quote above to the Buddha -- have recognized that suffering is inevitable. Sure, some stressors can be dealt with. But others can't. If someone is having trouble coping, and he's a software developer in a developed country who has free time to write blogs, the best advice to that person is to seek help learning how to cope.
    - mojuba 11y ago
      By "developed" countries you mean those deeply indebted societies driven by the fear of losing a job? Where software managers and founders push to the limits because they have the leverage? Of course you can talk to a therapist or read some Nietsche (or some Buddhism) and your problems will go away.