4 ms·

My initial response to the IPB was that, when I graduate from my UK university, I would simply move to some other European state and enjoy less pervasive survei

by jelly 11y ago

My initial response to the IPB was that, when I graduate from my UK university, I would simply move to some other European state and enjoy less pervasive surveillance. However, after giving it more than a seconds thought, I realised most of my life I've had no reason to pursue a second language so I am limited to the anglosphere. In addition, 5 of the 6 anglosphere countries form the Five Eyes alliance, so my data would probably go back to the UK government no matter what.

deleted 11y ago
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- shiven 11y ago
  Way too trusting of government, are we?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
    - GordonS 11y ago
      I think the Snowden revelations (and those of subsequent leakers) has shown that the reality is often far more radical than even the craziest of conspiracy theorists has dreamt up.
      - fit2rule 11y ago
        Its amazing how ill-informed the average UK citizen is about the Snowden revelations. It appears that the propaganda against Snowden has quite effectively resulted in people ignoring the facts he revealed.
        GordonS 11y ago
        Agreed. To be honest, with the exception of the The Guardian, it hardly even gets any column inches or air time on the news here.
- JupiterMoon 11y ago
  This argument is flawed. Free democratic countries do not keep files on the private lives of all their citizens. It doesn't really matter what is done with the files. Their very existence creates a chilling effect which is not compatible with a free open democratic process.
- coldtea 11y ago
  That's rich.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  > unlikely that your data is even being seen by an analyst Of course not. Did you forget all of the automated analysis methods that are featured most days right here on HN? The analyst only gets involved at the end of the process. This meme about the likelihood of being a target is shockingly naive; do you really believe the FVEY intelligence agencies somehow missed the rise of "Big Data"?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
SyneRyder 11y ago
Language shouldn't be a barrier, especially in western Europe. While people will appreciate it if you speak their language (and you should try to learn it), there are so many languages spoken across Europe that English is the default interchange language. And if I remember correctly, some German companies even require staff to speak English at work just so employees from different countries can all understand each other. If you have the right to live & work in the EU, you're very lucky & years ahead of some of us. I've been learning German for 5 years & spent a lot of time looking into the EU Blue Card program.
- collyw 11y ago
  Don't Encourage the little Enganders to leave. If they are happy with their limited world, then so be it.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  >> "If you have the right to live & work in the EU" This might not apply to UK citizens very much longer if the referendum vote goes the wrong way.
wsq 11y ago
Welcome to Finland. We are so struck by americanism that English is practically the third national language here. (After Finnish and Swedish) We have lots of immigrants who don't bother learning Finnish because they don't have to. English is also the work language in many companies.
- tyfon 11y ago
  I'd guess it is way ahead of Swedish. I was over there on a business trip a couple months ago and I only met one person that spoke Swedish to the point where she could understand my Norwegian. Everyone got English :) It's the same here in Norway, we have multiple English speakers at work, and the working language is English in a lot of places.
  - noinsight 11y ago
    Technically Finland is bilingual - but not in practice - except for the 5% Swedish speaking minority. Everyone is forced to learn Swedish at school starting from year 7 but obviously the results are poor since it's not optional and it's useless. I refuse to ever speak Swedish yet I was forced to learn it.
vidarh 11y ago
In most European countries foreigners find it harder and harder to learn the local language because the locals tends to switch to English the moment they notice you stumble if you try to speak theirs. It's to the point it's annoying if you're travelling to practice another language. Not speaking the local language would lock you out of certain types of jobs with language requirements, e.g. civil service jobs and customer facing roles typically, but depending on what you want to do they might not care at all. But yes, leaving the UK to escape spying elsewhere in Europe wouldn't really achieve much.

by jelly 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

shiven 11y ago
Way too trusting of government, are we?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - GordonS 11y ago
    I think the Snowden revelations (and those of subsequent leakers) has shown that the reality is often far more radical than even the craziest of conspiracy theorists has dreamt up.
    - fit2rule 11y ago
      Its amazing how ill-informed the average UK citizen is about the Snowden revelations. It appears that the propaganda against Snowden has quite effectively resulted in people ignoring the facts he revealed.
      - GordonS 11y ago
        Agreed. To be honest, with the exception of the The Guardian, it hardly even gets any column inches or air time on the news here.
JupiterMoon 11y ago
This argument is flawed. Free democratic countries do not keep files on the private lives of all their citizens. It doesn't really matter what is done with the files. Their very existence creates a chilling effect which is not compatible with a free open democratic process.
coldtea 11y ago
That's rich.
pdkl95 11y ago
> unlikely that your data is even being seen by an analyst Of course not. Did you forget all of the automated analysis methods that are featured most days right here on HN? The analyst only gets involved at the end of the process. This meme about the likelihood of being a target is shockingly naive; do you really believe the FVEY intelligence agencies somehow missed the rise of "Big Data"?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

SyneRyder 11y ago

Language shouldn't be a barrier, especially in western Europe. While people will appreciate it if you speak their language (and you should try to learn it), there are so many languages spoken across Europe that English is the default interchange language. And if I remember correctly, some German companies even require staff to speak English at work just so employees from different countries can all understand each other. If you have the right to live & work in the EU, you're very lucky & years ahead of some of us. I've been learning German for 5 years & spent a lot of time looking into the EU Blue Card program.

collyw 11y ago
Don't Encourage the little Enganders to leave. If they are happy with their limited world, then so be it.
k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> "If you have the right to live & work in the EU" This might not apply to UK citizens very much longer if the referendum vote goes the wrong way.

wsq 11y ago

Welcome to Finland. We are so struck by americanism that English is practically the third national language here. (After Finnish and Swedish) We have lots of immigrants who don't bother learning Finnish because they don't have to. English is also the work language in many companies.

tyfon 11y ago
I'd guess it is way ahead of Swedish. I was over there on a business trip a couple months ago and I only met one person that spoke Swedish to the point where she could understand my Norwegian. Everyone got English :) It's the same here in Norway, we have multiple English speakers at work, and the working language is English in a lot of places.
- noinsight 11y ago
  Technically Finland is bilingual - but not in practice - except for the 5% Swedish speaking minority. Everyone is forced to learn Swedish at school starting from year 7 but obviously the results are poor since it's not optional and it's useless. I refuse to ever speak Swedish yet I was forced to learn it.

vidarh 11y ago

In most European countries foreigners find it harder and harder to learn the local language because the locals tends to switch to English the moment they notice you stumble if you try to speak theirs. It's to the point it's annoying if you're travelling to practice another language. Not speaking the local language would lock you out of certain types of jobs with language requirements, e.g. civil service jobs and customer facing roles typically, but depending on what you want to do they might not care at all. But yes, leaving the UK to escape spying elsewhere in Europe wouldn't really achieve much.