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The more the UK slips down the hole of tyranny and fascism, the more despondent I become - even though I'm not a UK citizen. The reason is, I just don't know o

The more the UK slips down the hole of tyranny and fascism, the more despondent I become - even though I'm not a UK citizen. The reason is, I just don't know of any way that the British people can claw their way back up out of this hole - their tyrannical government seems to be 10 steps ahead of every effort to reign it in. So I feel like I'm witnessing, helplessly, the decline of the UK as a power, and as a nation of free peoples, and the despair comes from knowing that as time goes on, the likelihood of non-violent solutions to the oppression of the British people are ever-more unlikely.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
The worst thing is that though another government could be elected and clean up some of the mess, it wouldn't have time to undo 30 years of damage, and it wouldn't even try to make the desperately needed constitutional reforms to prevent more of this happening in future.
luwbdascb 11y ago
k
bapbap 11y ago
It's worrying how much mileage "think of the children" and counter-terrorism gets.
- venomsnake 11y ago
  And ISIS are both terrorist and pedophiles (what happens to Yazidi girls is not for the faint of heart).You can kiss all of your civil rights goodbye the moment there is ISIS inspired attack on british soil.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  Well, today IDS has told us that the entire EU is a terrorist threat that we must be rid of, because the children. Also paedophiles.
  - timthorn 11y ago
    He did that because the other side in the debate is claiming staying in is important for the same reasons.
jelly 11y ago
My initial response to the IPB was that, when I graduate from my UK university, I would simply move to some other European state and enjoy less pervasive surveillance. However, after giving it more than a seconds thought, I realised most of my life I've had no reason to pursue a second language so I am limited to the anglosphere. In addition, 5 of the 6 anglosphere countries form the Five Eyes alliance, so my data would probably go back to the UK government no matter what.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - shiven 11y ago
    Way too trusting of government, are we?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
      - GordonS 11y ago
        I think the Snowden revelations (and those of subsequent leakers) has shown that the reality is often far more radical than even the craziest of conspiracy theorists has dreamt up.
        fit2rule 11y ago
        Its amazing how ill-informed the average UK citizen is about the Snowden revelations. It appears that the propaganda against Snowden has quite effectively resulted in people ignoring the facts he revealed.
        GordonS 11y ago
        Agreed. To be honest, with the exception of the The Guardian, it hardly even gets any column inches or air time on the news here.
venomsnake 11y ago
Every government slides into tyranny. It is inevitable. The government can never on itself go back to being smaller/less powerful. In france they increased the emergency for 3 more months. I will bet it will be increased again. You need cataclysm to revert things - revolution or badly lost war. The US held as long because it had been created intentionally weak. It needed Civil War and a World War to be able to consolidate its powers. The cold and war on terror suited just fine the power creep.
- rms_returns 11y ago
  > Every government slides into tyranny.. It is inevitable. That's why the constitutional framework on which a government was formed upon is very essential. And the strange thing is that America has the needed provisions in the constitution to prevent such tyrannical abuse in future. The Fourth Amendment[1] clearly states that: > Amendment IV to the United States Constitution prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. So you see, the government is blatantly violating the fourth amendment by invading its citizens' privacy, but the point is that the constitution doesn't allow it and nor is it common for governments to do this thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United...
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!
petercooper 11y ago
To be fair, most people are more pragmatic than politically idealistic. To me, living in the UK remains, pragmatically, a more appealing notion than living in (almost) any other nation state I can think of. Even if there are shady things going on politically, pragmatically and factually one's life in the UK is less affected by government corruption than it would be in 90%+ of the world.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  This is what you are supposed to think, but what do you do when the Government won't rid itself of pedophiles, for example? When it grants itself the power to censor any individual, for any reason whatever? I think a big problem with the UK is that its people are comfortable with their ignorance. Would you agree?
  - petercooper 11y ago
    I think a big problem with the UK is that its people are comfortable with their ignorance. Would you agree? That's a human problem. At least the Brits are lucky enough to be ignorant about issues that rarely affect their daily lives. When the majority of the world has government-induced issues like corrupt or racist judicial systems, conscription, violence, a lack of universal healthcare, the death penalty, a lack of food and water, disease, etc. it seems rather first world to talk about violent revolution in a country that's easily in the bottom quartile of countries that needs it. Is this idealistic, positive talk? Certainly not, but do I feel "oppressed" by living in the UK rather than, say, Russia or the US? Heck no, I feel very lucky to live here and I know about the problems. Could it be better and should we always remain vigilant as voters? Definitely! :-)
    - maus42 11y ago
      >conscription That one sounds like a weird one out there. Especially if you consider that the UK has (re)instated (and probably would in future) draft if the situation warrants.
desas 11y ago
The UK has been declining as a power for the last 100 years.. Also most of this "tyranny" and "fascism" doesn't impact on the vast majority of the population, you probably care more than most of us do.
- fit2rule 11y ago
  That is exactly the point. Your society is falling into the abyss, and none of you care. If you did care, it wouldn't be happening - the fact that you don't care, is precisely why its being allowed to happen. "Fine by me if the English people are okay with being governed by pedophiles, pimps, war-mongers and criminals." Actually, it isn't fine by me.
- ionised 11y ago
  It impacts every one of us. The problem is most are apathetic or ignorant of what is actually happening.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

The worst thing is that though another government could be elected and clean up some of the mess, it wouldn't have time to undo 30 years of damage, and it wouldn't even try to make the desperately needed constitutional reforms to prevent more of this happening in future.

luwbdascb 11y ago

bapbap 11y ago

It's worrying how much mileage "think of the children" and counter-terrorism gets.

venomsnake 11y ago
And ISIS are both terrorist and pedophiles (what happens to Yazidi girls is not for the faint of heart).You can kiss all of your civil rights goodbye the moment there is ISIS inspired attack on british soil.
madaxe_again 11y ago
Well, today IDS has told us that the entire EU is a terrorist threat that we must be rid of, because the children. Also paedophiles.
- timthorn 11y ago
  He did that because the other side in the debate is claiming staying in is important for the same reasons.

jelly 11y ago

My initial response to the IPB was that, when I graduate from my UK university, I would simply move to some other European state and enjoy less pervasive surveillance. However, after giving it more than a seconds thought, I realised most of my life I've had no reason to pursue a second language so I am limited to the anglosphere. In addition, 5 of the 6 anglosphere countries form the Five Eyes alliance, so my data would probably go back to the UK government no matter what.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- shiven 11y ago
  Way too trusting of government, are we?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
    - GordonS 11y ago
      I think the Snowden revelations (and those of subsequent leakers) has shown that the reality is often far more radical than even the craziest of conspiracy theorists has dreamt up.
      - fit2rule 11y ago
        Its amazing how ill-informed the average UK citizen is about the Snowden revelations. It appears that the propaganda against Snowden has quite effectively resulted in people ignoring the facts he revealed.
        GordonS 11y ago
        Agreed. To be honest, with the exception of the The Guardian, it hardly even gets any column inches or air time on the news here.

venomsnake 11y ago

Every government slides into tyranny. It is inevitable. The government can never on itself go back to being smaller/less powerful. In france they increased the emergency for 3 more months. I will bet it will be increased again. You need cataclysm to revert things - revolution or badly lost war. The US held as long because it had been created intentionally weak. It needed Civil War and a World War to be able to consolidate its powers. The cold and war on terror suited just fine the power creep.

rms_returns 11y ago
> Every government slides into tyranny.. It is inevitable. That's why the constitutional framework on which a government was formed upon is very essential. And the strange thing is that America has the needed provisions in the constitution to prevent such tyrannical abuse in future. The Fourth Amendment[1] clearly states that: > Amendment IV to the United States Constitution prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and requires any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. So you see, the government is blatantly violating the fourth amendment by invading its citizens' privacy, but the point is that the constitution doesn't allow it and nor is it common for governments to do this thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United...
- venomsnake 11y ago
  John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!

petercooper 11y ago

To be fair, most people are more pragmatic than politically idealistic. To me, living in the UK remains, pragmatically, a more appealing notion than living in (almost) any other nation state I can think of. Even if there are shady things going on politically, pragmatically and factually one's life in the UK is less affected by government corruption than it would be in 90%+ of the world.

fit2rule 11y ago
This is what you are supposed to think, but what do you do when the Government won't rid itself of pedophiles, for example? When it grants itself the power to censor any individual, for any reason whatever? I think a big problem with the UK is that its people are comfortable with their ignorance. Would you agree?
- petercooper 11y ago
  I think a big problem with the UK is that its people are comfortable with their ignorance. Would you agree? That's a human problem. At least the Brits are lucky enough to be ignorant about issues that rarely affect their daily lives. When the majority of the world has government-induced issues like corrupt or racist judicial systems, conscription, violence, a lack of universal healthcare, the death penalty, a lack of food and water, disease, etc. it seems rather first world to talk about violent revolution in a country that's easily in the bottom quartile of countries that needs it. Is this idealistic, positive talk? Certainly not, but do I feel "oppressed" by living in the UK rather than, say, Russia or the US? Heck no, I feel very lucky to live here and I know about the problems. Could it be better and should we always remain vigilant as voters? Definitely! :-)
  - maus42 11y ago
    >conscription That one sounds like a weird one out there. Especially if you consider that the UK has (re)instated (and probably would in future) draft if the situation warrants.

desas 11y ago

The UK has been declining as a power for the last 100 years.. Also most of this "tyranny" and "fascism" doesn't impact on the vast majority of the population, you probably care more than most of us do.

fit2rule 11y ago
That is exactly the point. Your society is falling into the abyss, and none of you care. If you did care, it wouldn't be happening - the fact that you don't care, is precisely why its being allowed to happen. "Fine by me if the English people are okay with being governed by pedophiles, pimps, war-mongers and criminals." Actually, it isn't fine by me.
ionised 11y ago
It impacts every one of us. The problem is most are apathetic or ignorant of what is actually happening.