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After consideration [1], pretty awesome. [1] A) Individual ants are not protected by ethics in a way that outweighs the creation of art. B) A anthill is probab

by yk 11y ago

After consideration [1], pretty awesome. [1] A) Individual ants are not protected by ethics in a way that outweighs the creation of art. B) A anthill is probably not significant enough to warrant protection by environmental concerns.

themartorana 11y ago
1A is pretty interesting. It's not a statement of fact, though, and your arbitrary moral line probably doesn't line up with everyone else's. The sculptures are cool indeed, but I'm not sure killing hundreds or thousands of living things for something unnecessary lines up with my arbitrary moral line. Edit: yes, I know they're an invasive species, but parent's comment wasn't about that.
- fulafel 11y ago
  This kind of killing is generally accepted in society, sadly. People eat meat for sensory enjoyment, not out of necessity.
  - goldenkey 11y ago
    The worst part of it too, is denial. You'll have some that "their body needs meat" and others that say being a vegetarian is "too expensive." Yet it's been shown time and time again, that especially in this day and age, it's pretty trivial to be a vegan, let alone a vegetarian. The fact is that people are pretty weak when it comes to understanding their rather wicked sensory addiction to meat flavors. It is beyond me, how someone could say with a straight face that they trade torture and death for extra pepper. I'm inclined to believe that denial of the alternatives is the primary vehicle for the evil.
    - kefka 11y ago
      And I eat meat because grains, legumes, and starches kill me if I eat them. I was an omnivore that would eat pretty much anything. Not anymore, but by medical requirement. I'm T2 diabetic. I map my blood sugar and can show you what happens if I eat 20g carbs (hint: its not pretty). Now, I also think that killed plants also think and feel, just not in the timeframe we do. Their chemical triggers are their communication. Their neural net... I'm still not sure, but I'm sure there are plant biologists whom study this.
      - fulafel 11y ago
        Low-carb vegetarian diet is very easy to do. You can eat eggs, cheese, nuts, tofu and Quorn in addition to protein rich veggies like beans/lentils. Not to mention all the regular veggies that are low carb.
        DanBC 11y ago
        Eggs are pretty horrific from an animal rights point of view. You only need female chickens to lay eggs, so almost all the male chicks are disposed of by gassing with carbon dioxide (if they're unlucky) or grinding (if they're lucky). Hundreds of millions of chicks are hatched and then killed within a day because they're male. Note that the type of egg production (caged, barn, pastured, free range) doesn't make any difference here.
        goldenkey 11y ago
        I'm sure me and OP agree with you. But most people are incapable of going straight to vegan. Also, keep in kind that eggs CAN be humane and not a source of death - it is just that the current industry is.
      - goldenkey 11y ago
        First of all, you are reaching when you try to equate killing plants with killing animals. Second of all, vegetarian protein sources like peanuts and cashews have next to no carbs. Tofu is almost no carbs as well. And like I said, in this day and age, you can just get a good protein powder. If you don't want to go full vegan, just have cheese, milk, and eggs. Boom, protein, without killing. You are a classic case of the denial that is overreaching our culture. Kind of what I was referring to in my post. I think my arguments fall on deaf ears, because what you mentioned is so easily dispelled that I would garner you never took even a day to research vegetarian dietary options.
        kefka 11y ago
        > You are a classic case of the denial that is overreaching our culture. Denial? All life is sacred. I just don't put one life form above or under another. In order for me to eat, others have to die. That's true if it's lettuce or chickens or fish or yeast. Instead, I ask why you value mammals so much more than plant life? They doth deserve to live, right?
goldenkey 11y ago
"protected by ethics." Who's ethics? The law had slaves at 3/5ths a person at one point. Generally, a way not to be an ass, is to avoid taking life unecessarily. These art pieces are cool but I'm pretty sure no comprehensive set of ethics supports taking life for sake of entertainment or "coolness." I find it disgusting.
- sjwright 11y ago
  You can buy bug spray in the supermarket, because chemically torturing and murdering flies is acceptable. Where is the outrage?
  - RaleyField 11y ago
    Nobody is doing art exhibits with bug spray nor are they running around nature spraying nests for no good reason. If pouring aluminum was done for science in a limited number of times then that's acceptable, but doing it just to produce cheap artifacts of dubious artistic value is mildly obscene.
- yk 11y ago
  > Who's ethics? Mine, I am not speaking for some higher power. > Generally, a way not to be an ass, is to avoid taking life unecessarily. And here is the problem with your argument, this art form takes lives necessarily. So the question is, if we are better off without a few ant colonies or without an entire art form.
  - goldenkey 11y ago
    Perhaps one day killing will be seen as "getting one's hands dirty" and unecessarily organic in an otherwise square, cold, sterile, sharply edged world. Killing will not stop for morals but rather for reasons of seperation. Meals will be perfectly produced homogenous mixtures of 3d printed amino acids, vitamins, and sacchatides. Yeah.. I dont have much faith in the ability for people to trade pleasures for lives.

by yk 11y ago

themartorana 11y ago

1A is pretty interesting. It's not a statement of fact, though, and your arbitrary moral line probably doesn't line up with everyone else's. The sculptures are cool indeed, but I'm not sure killing hundreds or thousands of living things for something unnecessary lines up with my arbitrary moral line. Edit: yes, I know they're an invasive species, but parent's comment wasn't about that.

fulafel 11y ago
This kind of killing is generally accepted in society, sadly. People eat meat for sensory enjoyment, not out of necessity.
- goldenkey 11y ago
  The worst part of it too, is denial. You'll have some that "their body needs meat" and others that say being a vegetarian is "too expensive." Yet it's been shown time and time again, that especially in this day and age, it's pretty trivial to be a vegan, let alone a vegetarian. The fact is that people are pretty weak when it comes to understanding their rather wicked sensory addiction to meat flavors. It is beyond me, how someone could say with a straight face that they trade torture and death for extra pepper. I'm inclined to believe that denial of the alternatives is the primary vehicle for the evil.
  - kefka 11y ago
    And I eat meat because grains, legumes, and starches kill me if I eat them. I was an omnivore that would eat pretty much anything. Not anymore, but by medical requirement. I'm T2 diabetic. I map my blood sugar and can show you what happens if I eat 20g carbs (hint: its not pretty). Now, I also think that killed plants also think and feel, just not in the timeframe we do. Their chemical triggers are their communication. Their neural net... I'm still not sure, but I'm sure there are plant biologists whom study this.
    - fulafel 11y ago
      Low-carb vegetarian diet is very easy to do. You can eat eggs, cheese, nuts, tofu and Quorn in addition to protein rich veggies like beans/lentils. Not to mention all the regular veggies that are low carb.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        Eggs are pretty horrific from an animal rights point of view. You only need female chickens to lay eggs, so almost all the male chicks are disposed of by gassing with carbon dioxide (if they're unlucky) or grinding (if they're lucky). Hundreds of millions of chicks are hatched and then killed within a day because they're male. Note that the type of egg production (caged, barn, pastured, free range) doesn't make any difference here.
        goldenkey 11y ago
        I'm sure me and OP agree with you. But most people are incapable of going straight to vegan. Also, keep in kind that eggs CAN be humane and not a source of death - it is just that the current industry is.
    - goldenkey 11y ago
      First of all, you are reaching when you try to equate killing plants with killing animals. Second of all, vegetarian protein sources like peanuts and cashews have next to no carbs. Tofu is almost no carbs as well. And like I said, in this day and age, you can just get a good protein powder. If you don't want to go full vegan, just have cheese, milk, and eggs. Boom, protein, without killing. You are a classic case of the denial that is overreaching our culture. Kind of what I was referring to in my post. I think my arguments fall on deaf ears, because what you mentioned is so easily dispelled that I would garner you never took even a day to research vegetarian dietary options.
      - kefka 11y ago
        > You are a classic case of the denial that is overreaching our culture. Denial? All life is sacred. I just don't put one life form above or under another. In order for me to eat, others have to die. That's true if it's lettuce or chickens or fish or yeast. Instead, I ask why you value mammals so much more than plant life? They doth deserve to live, right?

goldenkey 11y ago

"protected by ethics." Who's ethics? The law had slaves at 3/5ths a person at one point. Generally, a way not to be an ass, is to avoid taking life unecessarily. These art pieces are cool but I'm pretty sure no comprehensive set of ethics supports taking life for sake of entertainment or "coolness." I find it disgusting.

sjwright 11y ago
You can buy bug spray in the supermarket, because chemically torturing and murdering flies is acceptable. Where is the outrage?
- RaleyField 11y ago
  Nobody is doing art exhibits with bug spray nor are they running around nature spraying nests for no good reason. If pouring aluminum was done for science in a limited number of times then that's acceptable, but doing it just to produce cheap artifacts of dubious artistic value is mildly obscene.
yk 11y ago
> Who's ethics? Mine, I am not speaking for some higher power. > Generally, a way not to be an ass, is to avoid taking life unecessarily. And here is the problem with your argument, this art form takes lives necessarily. So the question is, if we are better off without a few ant colonies or without an entire art form.
- goldenkey 11y ago
  Perhaps one day killing will be seen as "getting one's hands dirty" and unecessarily organic in an otherwise square, cold, sterile, sharply edged world. Killing will not stop for morals but rather for reasons of seperation. Meals will be perfectly produced homogenous mixtures of 3d printed amino acids, vitamins, and sacchatides. Yeah.. I dont have much faith in the ability for people to trade pleasures for lives.