3 ms·

Ah, ok...so modify the statement to "Every non-nuclear state that has attempted to gain nuclear capabilities has declared that they are doing so to protect agai

Ah, ok...so modify the statement to "Every non-nuclear state that has attempted to gain nuclear capabilities has declared that they are doing so to protect against aggression by <fill-in-nuclear-state-here>." The bottom line is that the behavior of states with nuclear weapons has, thus far, been categorically counter to the goal of reducing the proliferation of nuclear states.

dalke 11y ago
You need to modify more than that. Your following statement was: > "We", of course, proclaim that this is nonsense. The "this" referred to "the US/the west". It now refers to any threat from a nuclear neighbor. The US, France, etc. did not regard South Africa's concerns about Soviet expansionist policies in southern Africa as nonsense. Moreover, South Africa had a three phase defense plan (quoting http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Safrica/SABuildingBombs.html http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Safrica/SABuildingBombs.html ): Phase 1: Strategic uncertainty in which the nuclear deterrent capability will not be acknowledged or denied. Phase 2: Should South African territory be threatened, for example, by the Warsaw Pact countries through the surrogate Cuban forces in Angola, covert acknowledgement to certain international powers, e.g. the USA, would be contemplated. Phase 3: Should this partial disclosure of South Africa's capability not bring about international intervention to remove the threat, public acknowledgement or demonstration by an underground test of South Africa's capability, would be considered. Phase 2 would only work if the Western countries/USSR did not consider the threat as nonsense. Nor, I think, did people regard Pakistan's concern about an attack from nuclear-armed India to be "nonsense", though I haven't researched that issue. Also, your modification is "...aggression by <fill-in-nuclear-state-here>." South Africa was not concerned with aggression from the USSR but by regional attacks from conventional forces from Angola, Mozambique, etc. with Soviet backing. I don't think this falls even under your modified version.
- gte525u 11y ago
  Pakistan/India is more akin to North/South Korea. It is impossible for Pakistan or North Korea to maintain dollar for dollar defense spending with their rivals given the size of their economies.
  - dalke 11y ago
    How is this connected to jballanc's comment that the rest of the world considers South Africa's or Pakistan's declared reasons for acquiring nuclear weapons as a regional defense to be nonsense?

dalke 11y ago

You need to modify more than that. Your following statement was: > "We", of course, proclaim that this is nonsense. The "this" referred to "the US/the west". It now refers to any threat from a nuclear neighbor. The US, France, etc. did not regard South Africa's concerns about Soviet expansionist policies in southern Africa as nonsense. Moreover, South Africa had a three phase defense plan (quoting http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Safrica/SABuildingBombs.html http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Safrica/SABuildingBombs.html ): Phase 1: Strategic uncertainty in which the nuclear deterrent capability will not be acknowledged or denied. Phase 2: Should South African territory be threatened, for example, by the Warsaw Pact countries through the surrogate Cuban forces in Angola, covert acknowledgement to certain international powers, e.g. the USA, would be contemplated. Phase 3: Should this partial disclosure of South Africa's capability not bring about international intervention to remove the threat, public acknowledgement or demonstration by an underground test of South Africa's capability, would be considered. Phase 2 would only work if the Western countries/USSR did not consider the threat as nonsense. Nor, I think, did people regard Pakistan's concern about an attack from nuclear-armed India to be "nonsense", though I haven't researched that issue. Also, your modification is "...aggression by <fill-in-nuclear-state-here>." South Africa was not concerned with aggression from the USSR but by regional attacks from conventional forces from Angola, Mozambique, etc. with Soviet backing. I don't think this falls even under your modified version.

gte525u 11y ago
Pakistan/India is more akin to North/South Korea. It is impossible for Pakistan or North Korea to maintain dollar for dollar defense spending with their rivals given the size of their economies.
- dalke 11y ago
  How is this connected to jballanc's comment that the rest of the world considers South Africa's or Pakistan's declared reasons for acquiring nuclear weapons as a regional defense to be nonsense?