3 ms·

This proposal (run an auction for the H1-B slots) would likely make it even harder for startups to offer H1-B visas compared to say Microsoft. For arguments sa

by boulos 11y ago

This proposal (run an auction for the H1-B slots) would likely make it even harder for startups to offer H1-B visas compared to say Microsoft. For arguments sake, lets consider an average potential hire. Lots of startups are willing to pay ballpark $130k in San Francisco right now (low end $70k, upper end $180k). Since the company most likely don't have funding lasting more than 18 months, this means they're budgeting just about $200k plus taxes and benefits for this person over that duration. You might be willing to pay 10, 20 or even 30% as a fee for the right candidate (just like headhunter fees) but that translates into either that many fewer employees or that much less runway. Taking 18 months of capital and turning it into 12 is a quick way to end up dead. By contrast, large companies are paying much more in total compensation and can easily afford to spread this cost over multiple years (assuming the candidate doesn't nearly immediately utilize his ability to transfer his visa). If anything this proposal seems like it would lend itself towards ensuring only large companies apply for H1-Bs and that smaller ones just have to hope people will transfer, despite not being able to promise that they'll be in business long enough to sponsor a green card.

laurencerowe 11y ago
Under the current system an employer has to wait 6 months to a year for their new hire to start, with a 1 in 4 chance in the H1-B lottery. That's just too far out for a startup.
- boulos 11y ago
  Yes, and this would make it even worse (because the cost wouldn't be known until after the April 1 auction). That's my point: it's already bad for a variety of reasons, but introducing an auction just makes it worse. Srinivas is right though: the price is clearly too damn low.
srinivasan 11y ago
It's a false premise that startups are currently competing against large companies like Microsoft for H-1B visas. The biggest H-1B users are offshoring/outsourcing companies (source: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcing-companies-dominate-h1b-visas.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcing...) Moving to an auction system will in fact improve a startup's chances - most VC funded startups can comfortably outbid an outsourcing company. The outsourcers' business models are dependent on visa costs being on the low side.
- boulos 11y ago
  Wow! Thanks for this link. For those that didn't click through: all the big tech firms combined only took about 5000 of the 85000 H1-B applications in 2014. Tata/Wipro/Infosys etc. each took more than 3000 a piece (Tata alone did more than all the big tech firms combined). Still it seems like an auction isn't necessary, just a higher fixed fee upon selection. If it was say $10k, that's a pretty big chunk of the $45k to $90k that PayScale reports for software engineers at Tata Consultancy Services.
vskarine 11y ago
I actually think it's a good thing that startups won't be able to easily hire H1Bs. Here is what happened to me: I got convinced to join a startup with all sorts of promises of stability. I got H1B and I relocate my family to silicon valley. I go to my first day at work. First is meeting with founder, who tells me company has 1 month of money in the bank and currently at the stage of raising capital. Imagine my reaction that I might not have a job in a month after all they told me to recruit me. If I was citizen I could just get another job but with H1B it means leaving the country after the move and if company goes bankrupt they would not even be able to pay for me relocating back. Everything turned out to be fine at the end, but I don't wish anyone to experience that situation.
- boulos 11y ago
  I don't disagree that the H1-B system is fairly broken, but you could have found another company to transfer it to, correct? The once a year lottery for H1-B visas makes it nearly impossible for both employee and employer to forecast and to plan. While I'm not defending their actions, how long before moving here did you interview? I'd guess the "real" problem is that they didn't tell you as the date got closer that they weren't in great shape and maybe you should reconsider...

by boulos 11y ago

laurencerowe 11y ago

Under the current system an employer has to wait 6 months to a year for their new hire to start, with a 1 in 4 chance in the H1-B lottery. That's just too far out for a startup.

boulos 11y ago
Yes, and this would make it even worse (because the cost wouldn't be known until after the April 1 auction). That's my point: it's already bad for a variety of reasons, but introducing an auction just makes it worse. Srinivas is right though: the price is clearly too damn low.

srinivasan 11y ago

It's a false premise that startups are currently competing against large companies like Microsoft for H-1B visas. The biggest H-1B users are offshoring/outsourcing companies (source: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcing-companies-dominate-h1b-visas.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/06/us/outsourcing...) Moving to an auction system will in fact improve a startup's chances - most VC funded startups can comfortably outbid an outsourcing company. The outsourcers' business models are dependent on visa costs being on the low side.

boulos 11y ago
Wow! Thanks for this link. For those that didn't click through: all the big tech firms combined only took about 5000 of the 85000 H1-B applications in 2014. Tata/Wipro/Infosys etc. each took more than 3000 a piece (Tata alone did more than all the big tech firms combined). Still it seems like an auction isn't necessary, just a higher fixed fee upon selection. If it was say $10k, that's a pretty big chunk of the $45k to $90k that PayScale reports for software engineers at Tata Consultancy Services.

vskarine 11y ago

I actually think it's a good thing that startups won't be able to easily hire H1Bs. Here is what happened to me: I got convinced to join a startup with all sorts of promises of stability. I got H1B and I relocate my family to silicon valley. I go to my first day at work. First is meeting with founder, who tells me company has 1 month of money in the bank and currently at the stage of raising capital. Imagine my reaction that I might not have a job in a month after all they told me to recruit me. If I was citizen I could just get another job but with H1B it means leaving the country after the move and if company goes bankrupt they would not even be able to pay for me relocating back. Everything turned out to be fine at the end, but I don't wish anyone to experience that situation.

boulos 11y ago
I don't disagree that the H1-B system is fairly broken, but you could have found another company to transfer it to, correct? The once a year lottery for H1-B visas makes it nearly impossible for both employee and employer to forecast and to plan. While I'm not defending their actions, how long before moving here did you interview? I'd guess the "real" problem is that they didn't tell you as the date got closer that they weren't in great shape and maybe you should reconsider...