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Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability? It seems so strange that the market is willing to pay ~$40-$80k for a car totall

Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability? It seems so strange that the market is willing to pay ~$40-$80k for a car totally indifferent to its engineering quality. If I were to own a luxury car, I'd want to know its engineering is rock-solid first and foremost. I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol. Maybe that's just a techie thing, though. Volvo has been notorious for extremely difficult-to-diagnose and expensive-to-repair electrical system problems for at least a decade.

frik 11y ago
> Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability The Mercedes-Benz/Puch G-Class hasn't changed that much since 1979. It's a mid-size four-wheel drive luxury SUV, a real cross country vehicle. Deer hunters, various military, VIPs, presidents and the pope, many use the G-Class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class
- obelisk_ 11y ago
  I went and found a few images of this car and variations of it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2015-Mercedes-Benz-G550-35th-Anniversary-Edition-PLACEMENT-626x382.jpg http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2015... http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/g-class/209746d1229037598-6x6-g-wagen-info-planning-possible-g-wagen-6x6-photo-3.jpg http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/g-class/209746d1... http://olive-drab.com/images/id_mb_gclass_03_700.jpg http://olive-drab.com/images/id_mb_gclass_03_700.jpg http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qAO8Ma4i--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18rhjuyh9idiqjpg.jpg http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qAO8Ma4i... http://spintires-mods.lt/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mercedes-Benz-Gelenwagen-63-6x6.jpg http://spintires-mods.lt/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mercedes... (CGI) http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DobFdTEMh3Y/TDoii7WEbZI/AAAAAAAABBQ/EB9q9IuwpSE/s1600/4.jpeg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DobFdTEMh3Y/TDoii7WEbZI/AAAAAAAABB... http://cars-pics-db.com/pics/steyr-puch/steyr-puch-g-290/steyr-puch-g-290-07.jpg http://cars-pics-db.com/pics/steyr-puch/steyr-puch-g-290/ste... http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/testdrive/gallery/1080/mercedes-benz-g-class-cabriolet-review-2013-1080p-3.jpg http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/testdrive/gallery/108... http://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay141670236996969.jpg http://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay1416702369969... https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4a/bc/16/4abc163c1e0ab31bbd8f4bf4d2cf18aa.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4a/bc/16/4abc163c1... http://www.papercraftsquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dubai-Police-Mercedes-Benz-G-Class-SUV-Vehicle-Paper-Model.jpg http://www.papercraftsquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/D... (Paper Model) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3d/84/04/3d84040cc82ac3262a60d95c7393484a.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3d/84/04/3d84040cc... http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---M1k3rjO--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18rhjuql33mr5jpg.jpg http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---M1k3rjO...
rando289 11y ago
I've always thought, if I was rich, I would hire one or more developers who's job was to educate me on software (empowering me), and write and run software I was interested in. Wonder why I haven't heard of any rich people doing that?
- maxerickson 11y ago
  Stephen Wolfram does that.
- ktRolster 11y ago
  Your comment reminds me of the question: The Greeks invented the steam engine, why didn't they have an industrial revolution? One answer is that slave labor made a steam engine unneeded: any work the engine could do was already being done by slaves. Similarly, Cicero had no need for a printing press, any time he wanted to print something (election pamphlets, for example), he had an army of slaves copy it over and over by hand. So maybe rich people have the same thing: they don't need someone to code them a train schedule app (or whatever to empower them), they just tell someone to figure out their schedule for them.
  - jacobreg 11y ago
    I think the simpler answer is they didn't invent a practical steam engine.
  - rando289 11y ago
    Thx. great idea.
corin_ 11y ago
Where is Volvo considered a luxury car brand? Here in the UK I don't know anyone who would call it that.
- alex_anglin 11y ago
  In North America Volvo has definitely evolved in to a luxury car brand, if just by the prices of their cars.
- superuser2 11y ago
  AFAIK the cheapest American Volvo (S60) is about the same price as a BMW 3-Series.
- sanoli 11y ago
  In many countries around the world it is definitely a luxury brand.
awqrre 11y ago
Toyota had it's fair share of bad software design issues (Lexus is a division of Toyota)...
cma 11y ago
> I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol. As a machine and as a symbol aren't necessarily independent of each other. Being less reliable and more expensive to fix can make it more prestigious in some cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Clas...
quicklyfrozen 11y ago
Putting this kind of safety-related issue aside, the first purchaser probably won't keep the car long enough to have any real problems (at this price level it's probably a lease). Even if they do, the dealer will give them a loaner (and may even pick up the car) so problems aren't much of an inconvenience. It's much more of an issue for those of us who like to buy several year old luxury cars -- they have become much harder and more expensive to repair in the last 10 years or so.
- superuser2 11y ago
  Can you explain "it's usually a lease?" Doesn't it defeat the purpose of signaling wealth if you don't actually own it? How common actually is leasing at this price level?
  - brewdad 11y ago
    How can you tell who leased and who bought his vehicle as you cruise down the freeway?
  - Outdoorsman 11y ago
    It's simply that no one can tell whether or not you own the car, just by seeing you drive by in it, or seeing it in your driveway... The true "equity" in a great number of cars on the road--those financed, or leased, is held by a bank, institution or business.... Remember the old false-fronted buildings in the frontier towns portrayed in numerous westerns...? The wherewithal of those business was likely much smaller than the storefront indicated... In other words, some consumers will go to great lengths to project "success" when in actuality they haven't quite "made it"...leasing, even renting, a luxury car for that reason is quite common around the world...
  - quicklyfrozen 11y ago
    Not sure where they got their data from, but see https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-do-people-lease-or-buy https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-do-people... -- claims 67% leasing for MB, and 70% for BMW. It's common because people can't really afford them :-), and don't want to finance the full amount if they're not going to keep the vehicle past 3 years anyway.
hvjackson 11y ago
Many luxury car shoppers are not that concerned with reliability since they plan on only owning the car for a few years. 3 year leases are common and even those who buy a vehicle outright may trade in long before reliability becomes a real concern.

frik 11y ago

> Why don't any of the luxury car brands (other than Lexus) focus on reliability The Mercedes-Benz/Puch G-Class hasn't changed that much since 1979. It's a mid-size four-wheel drive luxury SUV, a real cross country vehicle. Deer hunters, various military, VIPs, presidents and the pope, many use the G-Class. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class

obelisk_ 11y ago
I went and found a few images of this car and variations of it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2015-Mercedes-Benz-G550-35th-Anniversary-Edition-PLACEMENT-626x382.jpg http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/2015... http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/g-class/209746d1229037598-6x6-g-wagen-info-planning-possible-g-wagen-6x6-photo-3.jpg http://www.benzworld.org/forums/attachments/g-class/209746d1... http://olive-drab.com/images/id_mb_gclass_03_700.jpg http://olive-drab.com/images/id_mb_gclass_03_700.jpg http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qAO8Ma4i--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18rhjuyh9idiqjpg.jpg http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qAO8Ma4i... http://spintires-mods.lt/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mercedes-Benz-Gelenwagen-63-6x6.jpg http://spintires-mods.lt/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Mercedes... (CGI) http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DobFdTEMh3Y/TDoii7WEbZI/AAAAAAAABBQ/EB9q9IuwpSE/s1600/4.jpeg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DobFdTEMh3Y/TDoii7WEbZI/AAAAAAAABB... http://cars-pics-db.com/pics/steyr-puch/steyr-puch-g-290/steyr-puch-g-290-07.jpg http://cars-pics-db.com/pics/steyr-puch/steyr-puch-g-290/ste... http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/testdrive/gallery/1080/mercedes-benz-g-class-cabriolet-review-2013-1080p-3.jpg http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/testdrive/gallery/108... http://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay141670236996969.jpg http://car-from-uk.com/ebay/carphotos/full/ebay1416702369969... https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4a/bc/16/4abc163c1e0ab31bbd8f4bf4d2cf18aa.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/4a/bc/16/4abc163c1... http://www.papercraftsquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Dubai-Police-Mercedes-Benz-G-Class-SUV-Vehicle-Paper-Model.jpg http://www.papercraftsquare.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/D... (Paper Model) https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3d/84/04/3d84040cc82ac3262a60d95c7393484a.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/3d/84/04/3d84040cc... http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---M1k3rjO--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18rhjuql33mr5jpg.jpg http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---M1k3rjO...

rando289 11y ago

I've always thought, if I was rich, I would hire one or more developers who's job was to educate me on software (empowering me), and write and run software I was interested in. Wonder why I haven't heard of any rich people doing that?

maxerickson 11y ago
Stephen Wolfram does that.
ktRolster 11y ago
Your comment reminds me of the question: The Greeks invented the steam engine, why didn't they have an industrial revolution? One answer is that slave labor made a steam engine unneeded: any work the engine could do was already being done by slaves. Similarly, Cicero had no need for a printing press, any time he wanted to print something (election pamphlets, for example), he had an army of slaves copy it over and over by hand. So maybe rich people have the same thing: they don't need someone to code them a train schedule app (or whatever to empower them), they just tell someone to figure out their schedule for them.
- jacobreg 11y ago
  I think the simpler answer is they didn't invent a practical steam engine.
- rando289 11y ago
  Thx. great idea.

corin_ 11y ago

Where is Volvo considered a luxury car brand? Here in the UK I don't know anyone who would call it that.

alex_anglin 11y ago
In North America Volvo has definitely evolved in to a luxury car brand, if just by the prices of their cars.
superuser2 11y ago
AFAIK the cheapest American Volvo (S60) is about the same price as a BMW 3-Series.
sanoli 11y ago
In many countries around the world it is definitely a luxury brand.

awqrre 11y ago

Toyota had it's fair share of bad software design issues (Lexus is a division of Toyota)...

cma 11y ago

> I'd want to be proud of it as a machine not just a symbol. As a machine and as a symbol aren't necessarily independent of each other. Being less reliable and more expensive to fix can make it more prestigious in some cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_Clas...

quicklyfrozen 11y ago

Putting this kind of safety-related issue aside, the first purchaser probably won't keep the car long enough to have any real problems (at this price level it's probably a lease). Even if they do, the dealer will give them a loaner (and may even pick up the car) so problems aren't much of an inconvenience. It's much more of an issue for those of us who like to buy several year old luxury cars -- they have become much harder and more expensive to repair in the last 10 years or so.

superuser2 11y ago
Can you explain "it's usually a lease?" Doesn't it defeat the purpose of signaling wealth if you don't actually own it? How common actually is leasing at this price level?
- brewdad 11y ago
  How can you tell who leased and who bought his vehicle as you cruise down the freeway?
- Outdoorsman 11y ago
  It's simply that no one can tell whether or not you own the car, just by seeing you drive by in it, or seeing it in your driveway... The true "equity" in a great number of cars on the road--those financed, or leased, is held by a bank, institution or business.... Remember the old false-fronted buildings in the frontier towns portrayed in numerous westerns...? The wherewithal of those business was likely much smaller than the storefront indicated... In other words, some consumers will go to great lengths to project "success" when in actuality they haven't quite "made it"...leasing, even renting, a luxury car for that reason is quite common around the world...
- quicklyfrozen 11y ago
  Not sure where they got their data from, but see https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-do-people-lease-or-buy https://www.cartelligent.com/blog/which-car-brands-do-people... -- claims 67% leasing for MB, and 70% for BMW. It's common because people can't really afford them :-), and don't want to finance the full amount if they're not going to keep the vehicle past 3 years anyway.

hvjackson 11y ago

Many luxury car shoppers are not that concerned with reliability since they plan on only owning the car for a few years. 3 year leases are common and even those who buy a vehicle outright may trade in long before reliability becomes a real concern.