6 ms·

TED, or the perfect display of what public speaking is today: that is, getting some kind of Tony Robbins on stage, who wont be shy of using the same tricks they

by vidoc 11y ago

TED, or the perfect display of what public speaking is today: that is, getting some kind of Tony Robbins on stage, who wont be shy of using the same tricks they learnt at some toaster club, to inspire and wow a crowd that's actually more here to enjoy their charisma rather than their ideas. TED is the absolute evidence that the powerpointization of ideas is in its terminal stage.

FlailFast 11y ago
True that, which is sad, because charisma can legitimately lower the difficulty of understanding complex ideas; think of your best teachers/favorite professors. I wish TED was filled with more Richard Feynman (charisma * ideas) and less Tony Robbins (charisma % ideas).
- gsteinb88 11y ago
  I'm not sure that Feynman is the best example here. In fact, in my experience, he's actually more of an example of the problem than the solution. While Feynman does a great job of explaining concepts if you never need to use them, I always found his lectures to be of the "captivating until you try to use them" variety. This wasn't just my experience either -- after struggling with this as a physics undergrad for a while (after all, they're supposed to help!) I started asking around. My academic advisor, several other professors, and many students felt the same way. Feynman may get closer -- or may do more to bring common understanding to complex principles -- but his approach broke down for actually learning to /do physics/. But I'll agree that he's a major step in the right direction; I just want to caution against the hero worship. There's no magic formula, no one person, who can make learning complex concepts easier. Some things are hard, and trying to make them seem easier can easily make them more confusing in practice.
  - bananaboy 11y ago
    There was a post about that exact topic on math-blog recently http://math-blog.com/2016/02/01/was-richard-feynman-a-great-teacher/ http://math-blog.com/2016/02/01/was-richard-feynman-a-great-... Summary: he wasn't a great undergraduate teacher.
    - gsteinb88 11y ago
      That was a fantastic post, thank you for sharing. Ironically, while affirming the view I held above, it also makes me think I should -- maybe -- give them another chance now that I'm well along in graduate school as opposed to a struggling undergrad.
      - ChuckMcM 11y ago
        I think you should. I had a similar experience with Feynman. Who spoke with assuming a certain level of familarity but with an engaging style that let your brain skip right over what it didn't really understand. Re-reading his lectures on physics and the papers on computation, post college, was a much deeper experience than reading him in High School. Even though I enjoyed both times tremendously.
  - serf 11y ago
    Robert Leighton: "Feynman has a peculiar property, which is that at the time he's explaining something, it appears very clear and transparent--you can see how everything fits, and you go away feeling very good about it, as if, "Well, there's a lot of loose ends there that I want to follow up on; but boy, wasn't that great!" And about two hours later, like what they say about Chinese food, it's all gone and you're hungry again. And you don't remember what happened.[0] [0]: Feynman's Tips on Physics: Reflections, Advice, Insights, Practice - https://books.google.com/books?id=FZ4fAQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT32&ots=kIwNFpeuEp&dq=robert%20leighton%20chinese%20food&pg=PT32#v=onepage&q=robert%20leighton%20chinese%20food&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=FZ4fAQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT32&ots=... edit: wrong name.
    - mchahn 11y ago
      I have read his QED book many times and I experience the same clarity when reading as you mention. Then later I lose that and am able to re-read it with the same enthusiasm I had the first time. So that property does have its advantages. (grin) BTW, I have this same experience with many other science books for laypeople. It is very possible that I do understand them while reading but then I am unable to remember the complex thoughts.
- alexashka 11y ago
  Perhaps I'm nitpicking but charisma gets people to listen, that's it. It is not related to the quality of the content. The problem with Tony Robbins is he's mister positive and only focused on personal improvement. These are enormous constraints that ignore the bigger picture. Feynman is great at explaining physics because it's not wishy washy - it is also really not that interesting past the cute basics, sooner or later you have to put in the hard work. TED is fundamentally flawed because things worth knowing - cannot all be politically correct and positive. Once you constrain yourself to being Mr/Ms Positive only, you end up being a delusional asshole because you are denying a big chunk of life any attention. There is no fixing TED as a result - it's more interested in money than truth. As are most people, hence why we are where we are :)
  - ryanobjc 11y ago
    This is exactly my thoughts on what's wrong with TED. It's not in the pursuit of the truth. Therefore, it's in the pursuit of status. You can see this among those who wave around TED talks they have seen as some kind of currency. "Oh have you seen the TED talk about Y? It's so amazing!" But also, by their nature, the talks cant dive deep. People are there to be amused and kind of learn, but real education is difficult. TED isn't difficult.
    - randycupertino 11y ago
      That's why the "Ted Talk about Nothing" is one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0FDjFBj8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0FDjFBj8o Their manner of speaking reminds me of American Dad making fun of Ira Glass. Why is pausing??! Doesn't he know what he's going to say next??? AAAAHH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvQdoOEDGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvQdoOEDGw
      - alexashka 11y ago
        Wow that talk about nothing is really well done :)
alexashka 11y ago
It is pompous entertainment. But then again, I can't help but think of what else a modern conference can be but that. There's a programming conference in my city, a thousand bucks a ticket. All the videos are going to be put online afterwards. Why would I spend a thousand dollars for the privilege of sitting through them with no ability to fast forward? 'Networking' and all that bullshit right? As if we can't organize people to come hang out at a pub with everyone paying their tab at the end of the night?
- lsc 11y ago
  >It is pompous entertainment. But then again, I can't help but think of what else a modern conference can be but that. Huh. now, I've only been to technical conferences, for open source operating systems, but the only 'charismatic speakers' you get stay on the sales floor where they belong. I suspect that there is an inverse relationship between the specialized knowledge of the conference attendees and the 'charisma' required of the speakers.
johnchristopher 11y ago
What does it say about the attendants considering how much the tickets are priced ?
snewk 11y ago
so, i have a speaking engagement at a local TEDx event next weekend. I think my topic is both interesting and educational, and the way its presented will (hopefully) get people thinking about the subject in a new way. what do i do? cancel?
- ccallebs 11y ago
  I think the point is there's a very low signal:noise ratio when it comes to TEDx talks. Do your topic and knock it out of the park. It should raise the aggregate quality of available talks.
- DonHopkins 11y ago
  Troll them with a great talk like "How to Deconstruct Almost Anything". [1] "Academics get paid for being clever, not for being right." -- Donald Norman http://www.fudco.com/chip/deconstr.html http://www.fudco.com/chip/deconstr.html
  - snewk 11y ago
    I am a troll at heart, but over the last few months i've become friends with the event organizers. As much as trolling would be fun, I feel it would be a betrayal of their trust.
- dredmorbius 11y ago
  If nothing else, it's practice and exposure for you. If your talk's truly worthwhile, you've raised the value proposition for others. If it fits the mold, well, there's that then.
- jakobegger 11y ago
  Why cancel? Even if it's true that people come for charisma rather than ideas, it's still an honour that people want to hear you speak. Personally, I consider TED a form of high quality entertainment, and while I don't think it's changing the world, I do have a lot of respect for the people giving talks. If I could talk like the people at TED, and was invited to speak about a topic dear to me, there's no way I'd turn down the offer.
eutectic 11y ago
I don't think this is a new phenomenon, or that there's any reason to suspect it's getting worse. As long as charisma works people will use it, even if they have nothing useful to say.
Spooky23 11y ago
Don't forget that any TED speaker must master some inspiration-y hand gesture to look like a visionary in the still photo preview.

by vidoc 11y ago

FlailFast 11y ago

True that, which is sad, because charisma can legitimately lower the difficulty of understanding complex ideas; think of your best teachers/favorite professors. I wish TED was filled with more Richard Feynman (charisma * ideas) and less Tony Robbins (charisma % ideas).

gsteinb88 11y ago
I'm not sure that Feynman is the best example here. In fact, in my experience, he's actually more of an example of the problem than the solution. While Feynman does a great job of explaining concepts if you never need to use them, I always found his lectures to be of the "captivating until you try to use them" variety. This wasn't just my experience either -- after struggling with this as a physics undergrad for a while (after all, they're supposed to help!) I started asking around. My academic advisor, several other professors, and many students felt the same way. Feynman may get closer -- or may do more to bring common understanding to complex principles -- but his approach broke down for actually learning to /do physics/. But I'll agree that he's a major step in the right direction; I just want to caution against the hero worship. There's no magic formula, no one person, who can make learning complex concepts easier. Some things are hard, and trying to make them seem easier can easily make them more confusing in practice.
- bananaboy 11y ago
  There was a post about that exact topic on math-blog recently http://math-blog.com/2016/02/01/was-richard-feynman-a-great-teacher/ http://math-blog.com/2016/02/01/was-richard-feynman-a-great-... Summary: he wasn't a great undergraduate teacher.
  - gsteinb88 11y ago
    That was a fantastic post, thank you for sharing. Ironically, while affirming the view I held above, it also makes me think I should -- maybe -- give them another chance now that I'm well along in graduate school as opposed to a struggling undergrad.
    - ChuckMcM 11y ago
      I think you should. I had a similar experience with Feynman. Who spoke with assuming a certain level of familarity but with an engaging style that let your brain skip right over what it didn't really understand. Re-reading his lectures on physics and the papers on computation, post college, was a much deeper experience than reading him in High School. Even though I enjoyed both times tremendously.
- serf 11y ago
  Robert Leighton: "Feynman has a peculiar property, which is that at the time he's explaining something, it appears very clear and transparent--you can see how everything fits, and you go away feeling very good about it, as if, "Well, there's a lot of loose ends there that I want to follow up on; but boy, wasn't that great!" And about two hours later, like what they say about Chinese food, it's all gone and you're hungry again. And you don't remember what happened.[0] [0]: Feynman's Tips on Physics: Reflections, Advice, Insights, Practice - https://books.google.com/books?id=FZ4fAQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT32&ots=kIwNFpeuEp&dq=robert%20leighton%20chinese%20food&pg=PT32#v=onepage&q=robert%20leighton%20chinese%20food&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=FZ4fAQAAQBAJ&lpg=PT32&ots=... edit: wrong name.
  - mchahn 11y ago
    I have read his QED book many times and I experience the same clarity when reading as you mention. Then later I lose that and am able to re-read it with the same enthusiasm I had the first time. So that property does have its advantages. (grin) BTW, I have this same experience with many other science books for laypeople. It is very possible that I do understand them while reading but then I am unable to remember the complex thoughts.
alexashka 11y ago
Perhaps I'm nitpicking but charisma gets people to listen, that's it. It is not related to the quality of the content. The problem with Tony Robbins is he's mister positive and only focused on personal improvement. These are enormous constraints that ignore the bigger picture. Feynman is great at explaining physics because it's not wishy washy - it is also really not that interesting past the cute basics, sooner or later you have to put in the hard work. TED is fundamentally flawed because things worth knowing - cannot all be politically correct and positive. Once you constrain yourself to being Mr/Ms Positive only, you end up being a delusional asshole because you are denying a big chunk of life any attention. There is no fixing TED as a result - it's more interested in money than truth. As are most people, hence why we are where we are :)
- ryanobjc 11y ago
  This is exactly my thoughts on what's wrong with TED. It's not in the pursuit of the truth. Therefore, it's in the pursuit of status. You can see this among those who wave around TED talks they have seen as some kind of currency. "Oh have you seen the TED talk about Y? It's so amazing!" But also, by their nature, the talks cant dive deep. People are there to be amused and kind of learn, but real education is difficult. TED isn't difficult.
  - randycupertino 11y ago
    That's why the "Ted Talk about Nothing" is one of my favorites: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0FDjFBj8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0FDjFBj8o Their manner of speaking reminds me of American Dad making fun of Ira Glass. Why is pausing??! Doesn't he know what he's going to say next??? AAAAHH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvQdoOEDGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvQdoOEDGw
    - alexashka 11y ago
      Wow that talk about nothing is really well done :)

alexashka 11y ago

It is pompous entertainment. But then again, I can't help but think of what else a modern conference can be but that. There's a programming conference in my city, a thousand bucks a ticket. All the videos are going to be put online afterwards. Why would I spend a thousand dollars for the privilege of sitting through them with no ability to fast forward? 'Networking' and all that bullshit right? As if we can't organize people to come hang out at a pub with everyone paying their tab at the end of the night?

lsc 11y ago
>It is pompous entertainment. But then again, I can't help but think of what else a modern conference can be but that. Huh. now, I've only been to technical conferences, for open source operating systems, but the only 'charismatic speakers' you get stay on the sales floor where they belong. I suspect that there is an inverse relationship between the specialized knowledge of the conference attendees and the 'charisma' required of the speakers.

johnchristopher 11y ago

What does it say about the attendants considering how much the tickets are priced ?

snewk 11y ago

so, i have a speaking engagement at a local TEDx event next weekend. I think my topic is both interesting and educational, and the way its presented will (hopefully) get people thinking about the subject in a new way. what do i do? cancel?

ccallebs 11y ago
I think the point is there's a very low signal:noise ratio when it comes to TEDx talks. Do your topic and knock it out of the park. It should raise the aggregate quality of available talks.
DonHopkins 11y ago
Troll them with a great talk like "How to Deconstruct Almost Anything". [1] "Academics get paid for being clever, not for being right." -- Donald Norman http://www.fudco.com/chip/deconstr.html http://www.fudco.com/chip/deconstr.html
- snewk 11y ago
  I am a troll at heart, but over the last few months i've become friends with the event organizers. As much as trolling would be fun, I feel it would be a betrayal of their trust.
dredmorbius 11y ago
If nothing else, it's practice and exposure for you. If your talk's truly worthwhile, you've raised the value proposition for others. If it fits the mold, well, there's that then.
jakobegger 11y ago
Why cancel? Even if it's true that people come for charisma rather than ideas, it's still an honour that people want to hear you speak. Personally, I consider TED a form of high quality entertainment, and while I don't think it's changing the world, I do have a lot of respect for the people giving talks. If I could talk like the people at TED, and was invited to speak about a topic dear to me, there's no way I'd turn down the offer.

eutectic 11y ago

I don't think this is a new phenomenon, or that there's any reason to suspect it's getting worse. As long as charisma works people will use it, even if they have nothing useful to say.

Spooky23 11y ago

Don't forget that any TED speaker must master some inspiration-y hand gesture to look like a visionary in the still photo preview.