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EU referendum: Cameron sets June date for UK vote
- venomsnake 11y agoI really hope for an exit. I just want to see what will happen with UK outside of EU. Especially since they have done nothing to fulfill their pre referendum Scottish promises. The imperial preference days are over. That is a lesson the British need to learn. And a self inflicted wound will be the best way to do it. So either UK will be in EU as with all other or not at all. The current state of affairs as we are in EU only for the good stuff mightily annoys me.
- joefarish 11y agoWhich pre referendum Scottish promises haven't been fulfilled?
- venomsnake 11y agoThe greater autonomy of Scotland. Devolution max. There is barely something new done from what I read in the news
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- alexbilbie 11y agoThe Scotland Bill is currently working its way through the House of Lords (currently at committee stage) - http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16/scotland.html http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16/scotland.html The Bill recognises the Scottish Parliament and a Scottish government as permanent among UK's constitutional arrangements, with a referendum required before either can be abolished. In addition new powers/control given to the Scottish government include: * The ability to set Income Tax rates and bands * Control over several benefits and removable taxes including Air Passenger Duty and Disability Living Allowance * The right to receive half of the VAT raised in Scotland * Extended powers over Employment Support and Universal Credit
- vertex-four 11y agoThat sounds like you're treating this as a game. Fact of the matter is, if we leave the EU, a whole bunch of minorities lose a whole bunch of human rights protections. When this happens, the ability to lead a life of any sort decreases and suicide rates increase. The UK being "kinda-sorta part of the EU" is not a wonderful thing, but being out of it entirely would be far worse for real people. Fight for more integration with the EU if that's your thing. I'll note that Scotland would likely become independent and join the EU a few years after a British EU exit, but there's plenty of English, Welsh and Northern Irish people who'd get stuck.
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- venomsnake 11y agoCameron started treating it as a game. I just want to play in such a way to make it best for europe. I am sick of British blackmail. Pax Britanica is over. It is a small regional player. And I want it seen treated as. such. And if minority protections are so important said minorities should have done more for preventing him to come to power.
- MLR 11y agoCategorising the UK as a small regional player shows a ridiculously limited world view.
- alexbilbie 11y agoBritain is the second largest economy in Europe, the fifth largest economy in the world, the fourth military power, a leading member of the G7 and one of five permanent seat-holders on the UN Security Council. Hardly a "small regional player".
- aembleton 11y agoWhat human rights protections will be lost by leaving? In fact, what legislation would be removed by leaving? Surely all existing EU legislation is enacted into British law via an act of parliament.
- junto 11y agoI'm a Brit living in Germany. A vote to leave the EU is likely to mean that I will need to apply for a work visa to stay here. It is more than likely going to cause me a major pain in the arse. On the other hand I'm tempted to have the anti-EU Brits win and let them see what a disaster that will be for the UK, shutting them up once and for all. Then have them come back with their tails between their legs asking to be let back in. Reality is that the result will depend on the major newspapers bias, namely Mr Rupert Murdoch. He is traditionally anti-EU, but that has previously been based on back room deals with different political parties promising him one thing or another. Since his fall from grace his power has been somewhat diminished, do it will be interesting to see how the press play this out.
- mino 11y agoAlso, don't forget that: > It’s a peculiarity of this referendum that Commonwealth citizens may vote in it, whereas French, Italians and Germans who have lived here for many years, and are much more directly affected, may not. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/20/how-to-argue-against-brexit-eu-fate-europe-uk-at-stake http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/20/how-to-...
- masklinn 11y agoIIRC a fair few of those work in finance in the City, things are going to be… interesting.
- junto 11y agoIndeed. Border control policies end up being a tit for tat affair. The only reason EU countries have border controls on flights landing in their respective countries from the UK, is because the UK applies border controls on their citizens entering the United Kingdom. I can fly from Germany to Spain without ever showing my passport at my destination, but if I fly to and from the UK I need to show my passport on both sides. I expect this to become 100 fold worse in the UK tries to leave the EU.
- Alphasite_ 11y agoThe hold up is in negotiations from what I've read. Also the house of lords isn't too comfortable with the bill either.
- ZeroGravitas 11y agoWorth noting this is only happening because the British electoral system is broken. A small anti-EU, right-wing party could have stolen just enough votes on this issue to turn the tide on the two party system result due to the brain damage of first-past-the-post[1], so the main right-wing party started this hare-brained scheme in motion to head that off. This, in a nation where PR and full democracy is derided because... well actually mostly because the status quo benefits the powerful and well connected. Footnote 1: just struck me what a misleading name this is. I've never seen a horse race where a horse with a similar color Jersey to you going faster, can slow you down.
- calpaterson 11y agoIndeed it is happening because the political system is broken, but in the exact opposite way from how you have described. "A small anti-EU, right wing party" - UKIP got nearly 13% of the vote and would probably be part of a coalition government with the Conservative party if we had a proportional representation system. Instead they have 1 MP. The SNP got only 8.6% of the vote and they have 56 MPs. The referendum is happening because finally the grassroots of the Conservative party prevailed on the parliamentary Conservative party that we had to have one. Polling has historically shown that at least 40% of the country want to leave the EU. All of the traditional parties support the EU membership. The UK joined an economic community that has somehow transformed into a superstate. You need to have democratic process if you want to make a change that big.
- tonyedgecombe 11y agoThe EU has 33,000[1] direct employees, I'd hardly call that a superstate. [1] http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/docs/hr_key_figures_2016.pdf http://ec.europa.eu/civil_service/docs/hr_key_figures_2016.p...
- calpaterson 11y agoMy definition is not about number of employees and is common usage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstate
- bjourne 11y agoI hope Sweden leaves too, and/or Brexit causes the union to collapse. We have paid billions in aid to the poorer EU countries for years and all we get back are refugees, Romanian beggars and criminal gangs from the Balkans.
- zdkl 11y agoI really want to believe you're being sarcastic... In any case, neither the aid nor the 'consequence' you list above would be fixed by magic-ing the EU away.
- wiz21 11y agoI can't believe I read this here. Hope you're joking. I don't wear rosy glasses, I won't say there's no trouble, but targeting some people the way you do... awful.
- flexie 11y agoWell, I assume you are Swedish. A lot of Swedish people are respected internationally: Zlatan Ibrahimovitch, of Balkan origin, is one. What have you done that compares to what he has done for your country? Nothing, right? Your country has benefitted more from Eastern Europeans than they have from you.
- dang 11y agohttps://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=by:dang%20internecine%20swedish https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=...
- k-mcgrady 11y agoI'm pretty worried about this. I don't think most of the public are well enough informed to make this decision and I can't really blame them given all the propaganda. I could see many people making their decision based on immigration alone. One place that's going to be particularly hard hit by an exit will be Northern Ireland considering it shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland. In order to keep the current abilities to travel across the border with zero restrictions (the border is essentially invisible currently) I'm sure a lot of new laws will need to be worked out. I could also see a lot of businesses simply shifting offices 50 miles across the border to keep business within the EU.
- antillean 11y agoUh, no. Neither Ireland nor the UK is in the Schengen. The UK didn't want to be, and Ireland opted out because of the UK. From the BBC[1]: "The UK and Republic of Ireland have opted out. The UK wants to maintain its own borders, and Dublin prefers to preserve its free movement arrangement with the UK - called the Common Travel Area - rather than join Schengen." 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13194723 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13194723
- k-mcgrady 11y agoShocked I wasn't aware of that! I still think it'll be pretty bad from a business perspective with Northern Ireland losing companies to the Republic and more difficult trading between the two.
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- TazeTSchnitzel 11y agoThis is going to have wide-reaching consequences no matter what way it goes. Off the top of my head, potential issues include: * Combined with the sovereign debt crisis and the migrant crisis, this could be the end of the EU (perhaps unlikely, but) * The UK leaving the EU with the Republic of Ireland staying in (there's little support for RoI leaving) could create problems in Northern Ireland * The UK voting to leave the EU, with Scotland having voted to stay, could lead to another Scottish independence referendum * The UK voting to stay in the EU, with England having voted to leave, might (though I don't know how likely it is) upset people in England * Whatever way the result goes, it might bring down the current UK Government and force elections * If the UK leaves, other countries might consider it as well * If the UK stays, other countries might want to renegotiate their terms as well * This will bring up the European Convention on/Court of Human Rights, and Human Rights Act, issue again - what happens if the UK actually does leave the ECHR or repeal the HRA? Especially in Northern Ireland, where the HRA is part of the Good Friday Agreement, and in Scotland, where laws must comply with the ECHR I'm not an expert on any of this. It'll be interesting to see what happens, certainly.
- aembleton 11y agoMembership of the EU requires you to sign up to the ECHR, but countries outside of the EU are also members of the ECHR. We can continue to be part of the ECHR without being inside the EU. By leaving the EU, all our existing legislation that has been enacted will stay. It just means that our elected government will have the power to remove legislation without getting permission from unelected commissioners. Under the Lisbon treaty, we will continue to be members of the EU for two years following a vote to leave. I expect if we vote to leave, there will be another referendum in 2017 after the EU has had some serious introspection about the democratic deficit. I would expect them to try to keep the UK as a member.
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago> Membership of the EU requires you to sign up to the ECHR, but countries outside of the EU are also members of the ECHR. We can continue to be part of the ECHR without being inside the EU. Oh I am well aware. I am referring to the Conservatives' manifesto promise to repeal the Human Rights Act, which so far has been kicked into the long grass due to opposition and infeasibility. But since the ECHR is a European thing, EU or no, I think it will inevitably be brought up again with the referendum. (Side note: The EU is actually trying to join the ECHR as member in itself. Wondering when that process will be finished.) > By leaving the EU, all our existing legislation that has been enacted will stay. Sure, most of it, but what of it? We nonetheless lose participation in the Single Market etc.
- edko 11y agoThe rest of the EU countries should also hold a referendum about granting the UK these special conditions. It is very likely that, event after getting these privileges, they will act as if they were making us a favor to stay. Just leave. Maybe a free Scotland joins back in a few years.
- Gmo 11y agoAgreed. I would love to be consulted on this deal. Because I don't think the UK should get (any more) special rights. Stay as it is or leave, but why the special treatment ?