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By what metrics are engineers the most babied in the world? Certainly by metrics of the Silicon Valley PR machine that pays them, would greatly prefer to pay t
by ditonal 11y ago
By what metrics are engineers the most babied in the world?
Certainly by metrics of the Silicon Valley PR machine that pays them, would greatly prefer to pay them less, to blame them for the housing crisis, and to use as a debate piece for advocating for infinite H1Bs (but certainly not green cards - those employees have rights).
But not by any real metric. Go walk around an open-office plan filled to the brim with programmers, then walk into a VC office with their mahogany desks and high ceilings and private offices. Check out a law office where you'll see similar things. Look at actual salary data. Lawyers make significantly more than engineers, despite the "shortage" of engineers and "surplus" of lawyers (since this always gets brought up - yes, elite Stanford programmers who work at Google make more than some podunk law grad, but that Stanford law grad still does better, and the average programmer is paid less than the average lawyer). Doctors are 9 out of the 10 highest paid positions in the country. Police, firefighters, and teachers get paid actual overtime with pensions that pay out almost their whole salary after they retire, and have infinitely more job security. On the other hand, tech workers seem to think uncompensated 24/7 on-call is a badge of honor, just like spending all your free time doing even more programming to keep up with the endless tech skill treadmill. So why exactly are tech workers on the top of the list to see fail, other than us taking the blame and devilization for the failure of SF residents to properly plan housing and economic growth for years and trying to preserve the "character of the city" over making practical decisions?
Tech is a great career and compared to many people in this country who have been totally fucked over, we have it great. But this trope that tech workers are so spoiled because they give us a ping-pong table and catered lunch while paying us less than many other white-collar professionals is overdone, so drop it.
And what come-uppance do we deserve? Because we have jobs building products people use and value, that we show up to every day, that makes us deserve some retribution? Because we reasonably point out that six figures in the Bay Area is nowhere near an extravagant lifestyle, which anyone who knows anything about the cost of living would agree with?
The biggest problem I see is too many engineers jump on this self-flaggelation train without thinking critically about it or how it hurts them.
The real reason people keep calling "bubble" is because they're unimaginative. It happened before, so it's easy to just say the same thing will happen without really thinking about it. And yes, they say "this time it's different" in every bubble, except in this "bubble" there is no real indication that there is a bubble, and all these market corrections and beatings tech companies take that are pointed to as the existence of a bubble actually prove the direct opposite, because in real bubbles it goes up really fast based on speculation and comes down really fast in a spectacular crash. Tech has been slowly but consistently growing for years and occasionally takes some corrections and downturns, which is like any other market and nothing like a real bubble.
- skewart 11y agoAmen.
- abecedarius 11y agoI suppose another factor about programmers is that they're nerds; raising nerd status upsets the natural order.
- mdorazio 11y agoBy what metrics? Job availability, for one. Can you provide an example of another profession where someone with 2-3 years of experience can quit their high-paying job and have recruiters calling the same day to entice them to a new one? Education requirement, for another. Your examples all require advanced degrees from prestigious schools, multiple years of low wage grunt work, and/or a proven track record before hitting the high salary mark you seem to think is the default. Meanwhile, 22 year olds graduating from college with a CS degree and zero years of experience are getting six figure offers. Work environment, for a third. Think you can be a doctor and work from home when you feel like it, or have Nerf wars with your coworkers after grabbing a beer from the office-provided kegerator? SF and SV engineers are spoiled. Spoiled by market conditions that have combined to make right now an unprecedented good time for people who like writing code. Meanwhile, the other 98ish percent of Americans continue to get a poor deal. That's no one's fault, it's just the way economics has gone over the last few years. But it's no surprise that a large number of people want engineers to have to work with the same conditions as everyone else. I mean, can you really say with a straight face that someone writing yet another version of Tinder or whatever is providing more "value", as you put it, than a teacher?
- ditonal 11y agoTech workers have it better than many, worse than some. But hardly the most spoiled ever. If you're the type of person who values kegerators and nerf wars more than salary, benefits, and professional status, then I can see how you would have your perspective. I can only guess you're much younger than some of us. Personally, I'd rather finish my work and leave the office to go home and buy my own beer with a bigger paycheck than act like I'm in a frat-house. As for comparing someone writing a dating app to a teacher, I in no way implied that programmers create more value than teachers, or that somehow salary directly reflects the value people contribute to the world. But I think both contribute some value, and neither deserves to get demonized for just doing their job or even advocating for their own interests.