8 ms·

Umber Eco was one of the greatest scholars of Middle Age's philosophy. It is a great delight for all of us that he decided to share his knowledge in the form of

Umber Eco was one of the greatest scholars of Middle Age's philosophy. It is a great delight for all of us that he decided to share his knowledge in the form of a Novel. I don't think you can find any other writer capable of translating the thinking of ordinary men from Middle Ages into a book like he did.

ArkyBeagle 11y ago
To be able to translate that into novels that are as accessible as his novels are is a rare gift.
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  Most would describe Eco's work as 'challenging' rather than accessible.
Retric 11y ago
I really doubt we know very much about how people thought back then. There are many filters between what was thought, who knew how to write it down, the form people used to express thought in written form, what happened to be copied or survive. Ex: People don't actually believe in Santa Clause, but if you randomly chose 10,000 pages to represent US thought from 1800 to now. Them handed them to scholars in the future there is a solid chance you they would assume it was the major religion. I suspect sea monsters may simply be a similar tall tail and we lost context. PS: Ok, we can reasonably assume people got hungry :D
- mikeash 11y ago
  Is it not true that Santa Claus is the major religion? Many don't believe, but nearly all worship just the same.
  - jdale27 11y ago
    There is no God but The Dollar, and Santa Claus is his prophet.
    - wsc981 11y ago
      Santa Claus is a false prophet, an imposter. Sinterklaas [0] is the original, the real deal. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
  - wobbleblob 11y ago
    That reminds me of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode, on thanksgiving: Anya: I love a ritual sacrifice. Buffy: Not really a one of those. Anya: To commemorate a past event, you kill and eat an animal. It's a ritual sacrifice. With pie.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      It's funny how we consider certain cultural behaviors to be wildly different when they're "ours" versus "theirs" even if they're pretty similar if you can step back and observe them objectively. "If you used historical techniques on us, you'd get completely the wrong idea!" Maybe. Or maybe you'd finally get the right idea. I'd love to write more, but I've finished ingesting the stimulants that allow me to tolerate my oppressive culture (drinking coffee), and I'm going to take a short trip to worship the revered dead (visit the National Mall).
      - wobbleblob 11y ago
        Imagine trying to explain to an ancient Greek philosopher how Christianity is monotheistic. So, you have one God, but also a demigod, who is his son. There's a god of the underworld you call satan, and a number of divine or demonic creatures called angels and demons. Ok, throw in some ancestor worship in the form of saints. This monotheistic pantheon would have sounded reassuringly familiar your ancient Greek interlocutor.
- coliveira 11y ago
  It is true that we can never know this completely, but that is true about anything else in history. You would be amazed, however, to see what can be learned from reading the original languages, researching their homes, household utensils, popular art, etc.
- Double_Cast 11y ago
  For much of history, religion and culture were one and the same. As Santa Claus is a cultural icon, future scholars wouldn't be too far from the mark.
- JackFr 11y ago
  You'd be surprised. Read Baudilino by Eco, which speaks to this precise point.
  - nathwill 11y ago
    I just pulled Baudolino back off the shelf this morning, going to try to make it through this time. I love the idea of the untrustworthy narrator, and the writing is excellent, though dense. like Foucault's Pendulum, I find Baudolino hard to read straight through, though I'm sure it will ultimately be just as rewarding.
    - coliveira 11y ago
      It is. You have to give this book some time, but it is just Eco's way to present though provoking ideas.
- lgieron 11y ago
  Historians are not machine learning algorithms, they are capable of deriving much more complex inferences. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't believe Santa Claus was a major religion.
wobbleblob 11y ago
It's not medieval philosophy, with "years after that conversation was set", the poster you're replying to means 600 years. The book should not be seen as an historic work.
- ZeroGravitas 11y ago
  That's one of many modern references in the book (to Borges, Sherlock Holmes, the conventions of the whodunnit, etc) but I think it's clear that some effort is being made by Eco to exhibit the thought processes and preoccupations of the medieval mind.
- huxley 11y ago
  Anachronistic quotations happened quite often in ancient and medieval writing, so Eco was just having a bit of fun. I agree that the Name of the Rose is not an historic work (incidentally so did Eco), but plenty of medievalists think that it is good enough to be a useful teaching tool: http://www.syracuseuniversitypress.syr.edu/fall-2009/postscript-middle-ages.html http://www.syracuseuniversitypress.syr.edu/fall-2009/postscr...
  - wobbleblob 11y ago
    Do you know how medievalists view the Accursed Kings series of Maurice Druon?

ArkyBeagle 11y ago

To be able to translate that into novels that are as accessible as his novels are is a rare gift.

wobbleblob 11y ago
Most would describe Eco's work as 'challenging' rather than accessible.

Retric 11y ago

I really doubt we know very much about how people thought back then. There are many filters between what was thought, who knew how to write it down, the form people used to express thought in written form, what happened to be copied or survive. Ex: People don't actually believe in Santa Clause, but if you randomly chose 10,000 pages to represent US thought from 1800 to now. Them handed them to scholars in the future there is a solid chance you they would assume it was the major religion. I suspect sea monsters may simply be a similar tall tail and we lost context. PS: Ok, we can reasonably assume people got hungry :D

mikeash 11y ago
Is it not true that Santa Claus is the major religion? Many don't believe, but nearly all worship just the same.
- jdale27 11y ago
  There is no God but The Dollar, and Santa Claus is his prophet.
  - wsc981 11y ago
    Santa Claus is a false prophet, an imposter. Sinterklaas [0] is the original, the real deal. --- [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  That reminds me of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode, on thanksgiving: Anya: I love a ritual sacrifice. Buffy: Not really a one of those. Anya: To commemorate a past event, you kill and eat an animal. It's a ritual sacrifice. With pie.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    It's funny how we consider certain cultural behaviors to be wildly different when they're "ours" versus "theirs" even if they're pretty similar if you can step back and observe them objectively. "If you used historical techniques on us, you'd get completely the wrong idea!" Maybe. Or maybe you'd finally get the right idea. I'd love to write more, but I've finished ingesting the stimulants that allow me to tolerate my oppressive culture (drinking coffee), and I'm going to take a short trip to worship the revered dead (visit the National Mall).
    - wobbleblob 11y ago
      Imagine trying to explain to an ancient Greek philosopher how Christianity is monotheistic. So, you have one God, but also a demigod, who is his son. There's a god of the underworld you call satan, and a number of divine or demonic creatures called angels and demons. Ok, throw in some ancestor worship in the form of saints. This monotheistic pantheon would have sounded reassuringly familiar your ancient Greek interlocutor.
coliveira 11y ago
It is true that we can never know this completely, but that is true about anything else in history. You would be amazed, however, to see what can be learned from reading the original languages, researching their homes, household utensils, popular art, etc.
Double_Cast 11y ago
For much of history, religion and culture were one and the same. As Santa Claus is a cultural icon, future scholars wouldn't be too far from the mark.
JackFr 11y ago
You'd be surprised. Read Baudilino by Eco, which speaks to this precise point.
- nathwill 11y ago
  I just pulled Baudolino back off the shelf this morning, going to try to make it through this time. I love the idea of the untrustworthy narrator, and the writing is excellent, though dense. like Foucault's Pendulum, I find Baudolino hard to read straight through, though I'm sure it will ultimately be just as rewarding.
  - coliveira 11y ago
    It is. You have to give this book some time, but it is just Eco's way to present though provoking ideas.
lgieron 11y ago
Historians are not machine learning algorithms, they are capable of deriving much more complex inferences. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't believe Santa Claus was a major religion.

wobbleblob 11y ago

It's not medieval philosophy, with "years after that conversation was set", the poster you're replying to means 600 years. The book should not be seen as an historic work.

ZeroGravitas 11y ago
That's one of many modern references in the book (to Borges, Sherlock Holmes, the conventions of the whodunnit, etc) but I think it's clear that some effort is being made by Eco to exhibit the thought processes and preoccupations of the medieval mind.
huxley 11y ago
Anachronistic quotations happened quite often in ancient and medieval writing, so Eco was just having a bit of fun. I agree that the Name of the Rose is not an historic work (incidentally so did Eco), but plenty of medievalists think that it is good enough to be a useful teaching tool: http://www.syracuseuniversitypress.syr.edu/fall-2009/postscript-middle-ages.html http://www.syracuseuniversitypress.syr.edu/fall-2009/postscr...
- wobbleblob 11y ago
  Do you know how medievalists view the Accursed Kings series of Maurice Druon?