10 ms·
“Real courage is when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what.” That is one of my favorite quotes of al
by ldd 11y ago
“Real courage is when you know you're licked before you begin, but you begin anyway and see it through no matter what.”
That is one of my favorite quotes of all times, specifically taking into account the setting of the book.
- 3minus1 11y agoI prefer George R.R. Martin “Bran thought about it. 'Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?' 'That is the only time a man can be brave,' his father told him.”
- dvt 11y agoNot trying to be some literature snob, but GRRM can't hold a candle to the profound impact Harper Lee has had on American culture as a whole (not to mention that she won a Pulitzer and a Presidential Freedom Medal). It's almost insulting even bringing up a quote from ASOIAF.
- petepete 11y agoNot snobby in the slightest. A friend put it best: "George RR Martin is a great storyteller, but he's no great writer"
- tgb 11y agoHmf, until friend has a Pulitzer, I can't be bothered to read their quote.
- Outdoorsman 11y agoAgreed... Humans loves a narrative... Great storytellers often succeed financially when writers of interpretive fiction--literature--barely scrape by... Each type of author has a place...some readers want entertainment...other readers prefer entertainment coupled with edification... I think the best novels provide both...Harper Lee did just that...
- therealdrag0 11y agoI think it's a bummer that all the popular fantasy is not the best writing. (I do quite enjoy GRRM and Abercrombie.) Are there any, may lesser known, fantasy that is more literary?
- dvt 11y agoThe canonical examples are J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings) and C.S. Lewis (Chronicles of Narnia). See Fantasy Classics at Goodreads: http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/318.Fantasy_Classics http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/318.Fantasy_Classics
- runevault 11y agoCheck out Guy Gavriel Kay. He's go a bit of a poet's background and writes utterly heart wrenching prose. Can start most anywhere with him, but I'd recommend Tigana, Lions of al'Rassan, or Under Heaven as great starting points.
- hullo 11y agoGene Wolfe (Book of the New Sun) is great and a common recommendation along these lines. Ishiguro's The Buried Giant from last year asks to be described as Literary Fiction with a fantasy setting. But chasing down "If you liked Gene Wolfe you might like.." recommendations online would probably be fruitful.
- username223 11y agoI loved "Remains of the Day" and "Never Let Me Go", but didn't finish "The Buried Giant." The first two aren't fantasy, but IMHO they're much better Ishiguro. As for "literature-y" fantasy, I'd agree with others here to look at magical realism, e.g. "One Hundred Years of Solitude." But my opinion is probably crap -- some of my fantasy favorites are Tolkien's "Silmarillion" and "Lost Tales," which probably don't qualify as "great literature," but show some amazingly thorough and vivid world-building.
- drhayes9 11y agoI second the Gene Wolf recommendation. Huge fan of China Mieville, but that's closer to "new weird" than "fantasy". Mieville's books are complex and gripping.
- baddox 11y agoI find it odd that people would think a great story that's written down isn't by definition a great piece of writing.
- davidw 11y agoHere's a hint: if it's science fiction or fantasy, it's probably not considered 'great literature'. Having everyone die in the end is bonus points for 'great writing'.
- nostrademons 11y agoWell, GRRM did that one better and had everybody die in the beginning!
- davidw 11y agoHaven't read those. I read about enough deaths in the news, to be honest, to be interested in having too many in my fiction.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- thekingofspain 11y agoI mean, it's only one example, but Lord of the Rings?
- davidw 11y agoDo 'literature snob' kinds of people actually consider that to be good writing?
- umanwizard 11y agoNope.
- ldd 11y agoYou are not necessarily wrong, but I think it is important to try to understand what the comment meant. Perhaps some specific event in her life justifies her position. In literally terms, certain authors are simply better than others. But this does not invalidate the idea that some people might find more popular authors to have a bigger impact to them.
- cm2012 11y agoYou are in fact being a huge literature snob saying that it's insulting to even compare the two. To Kill a Mockingbird was culture changing because it touched on such an important issue to American culture (race relations, etc.), while also being a well written book grounded in the human spirit. It is not objectively better written than ASOIAF, which has surprising depth and a keen understanding of the human spirit in conflict with itself. ASOIAF has flaws, but so does TKAMB. Atticus could be argued to be quite a one dimensional character (not counting the sequel, which comes out of nowhere and is widely regarded to NOT be well written).
- edge17 11y agoTo be fair, it was also culture changing because it was required reading for a lot of schoolchildren.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- mintplant 11y agoThe cause and the effect might be the other way around there.
- ktRolster 11y agoIf Atticus were a one-dimensional character, then a complex analysis like this one couldn't have been written: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/10/the-courthouse-ring http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/10/the-courthouse-... He wasn't one-dimensional, he was very complex and real.
- dvt 11y agoI think it's fairly obvious that TKAMB is objectively better than ASOIAF. What next? You'll tell me that Dante Alighieri's 'Divine Comedy' isn't objectively better than Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code'? Or that 'The Grapes of Wrath' isn't objectively better than 'Fifty Shades of Grey'? I don't buy your bullshit relativism.
- duaneb 11y agoI don't see anyone arguing he is a better writer or had more influence. Where did this come from?
- zaccus 11y agoInsulting to whom? He just likes the one quote more than the other. There's nothing more to be read into it.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- 3minus1 11y agophilosophical insight, subversion of macho values, a picture of childish insecurity/fatherly guidance, and dramatic irony for those who know the ideals of the speaker will lead to his death. all that in 2 lines and you don't think it's great writing.
- chasing 11y agoCreating "meaning" from words is a joint effort between the words on the page and the reader. It's not a joint effort between the words on the page, the reader, and the Pulitzer committee. It is snobbish to attempt to subvert the impact that a piece of writing has had on someone because it's not good enough or important enough by some "objective" standard. People should be free to find "meaning" wherever they wish.
- moron4hire 11y agoFunny how people forget that the classics were once populist pieces.
- douche 11y agoCase in point, Shakespeare. Some people like to forget that he was a huge fan of sprinkling in dick jokes and clowns smacking each other over the head with inflated bladders to play to the groundlings.
- karmelapple 11y agoA truly powerful statement is powerful regardless of the background of the person who wrote it. Sometimes statements can be powerful because of who said it... but dismissing a quote just because someone has a certain background? I don't like an idea being discredited because of a person's impact of society. I really appreciated reading both of these quotes. I'm glad they were contributed.
- d4rkph1b3r 11y ago>but GRRM can't hold a candle to the profound impact Harper Lee has had on American culture Yes, but it has what, a 35 year head start? I don't think that your assertion being true is relevant to the literary merit of GRRM. I've read Harper Lee (and a lot of literature in general), GRRM is fantastic. A more apt comparison might be to Dostoevsky, as the concepts Martin wants to explore are less related to our culture and more to do with fundamental issues mankind has wrestled with for much longer.
- greydius 11y agoThis sounds like an armchair-philosopher platitude to me.
- camperman 11y agoTaken out of context, it would be. In context though it's a very important part of the novel. Atticus is telling his son that the next door neighbor who he loathed actually had real courage, not the kind you have with a gun in your hand but courage to stick to your principles all the way to death. Jem and Scout had been hero-worshipping their father a bit since the incident with the rabid dog and he's telling them that here's a different kind of couragee and one he admires more. It also foreshadows Atticus's own upcoming battle to stick to his principles in an impossible situation where he's licked already - and can't use a gun either.
- terryterrywhite 11y agoWhat does it mean to be 'licked'?
- GuiA 11y agoscrewed, doomed, destined to fail.
- jazzyb 11y agoSlang for "beaten".
- acangiano 11y agoTo be defeated. Example, "They Can't Lick Our Dick" (Nixon campaign slogan).
- RangerScience 11y agoSeriously?
- ktRolster 11y agoThen there was this one: http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/357927/12493914/1306952455567/Don't+change+Dicks+in+the+midst+of+a+screw.jpg?token=v6FdWHv7W42U%2Fe7DcApWy5Dgcv4%3D http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/357927/12493914/130695...
- krylon 11y agoThat ... is easily the most unsual political ad I have seen in my life. To put it mildly. ;-) I am tempted to think it was satire? I mean, this would not have been very appealing to Nixon's target audience, would it?
- labster 11y agoAs a former satirist, I am 99% sure that is satire. Certainly a majority like that wouldn't be silent for long! This looks exactly like the kind of stuff I was putting up around my college for George W. Bush. Also, this sign has a great rhyme scheme; I almost feel like it needs "Burma Shave" at the bottom.