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> Because desire is linked to suffering? Unfilled desire is linked to suffering. Filled desires are linked to pleasure, but after fulfilling one desire, anothe

> Because desire is linked to suffering? Unfilled desire is linked to suffering. Filled desires are linked to pleasure, but after fulfilling one desire, another one appears. It's life. So it's not fulfilling desires but being conscious about how desires are born, and consciously choosing which one to fulfill.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Why can't you enjoy something for what it is? As I said, it's possible to enjoy chaos. You don't know what chaos will bring, but you can still enjoy it as it comes along. Desire is a misused word. It's used as a catch all for all pleasure seeking, but in reality it's a special type of pleasure seeking, a directed form of pleasure seeking based on craving. If you're a pleasure seeker that doesn't have any strong craving for one type of pleasure over another you're still grouped in with those that are addicted to certain types of pleasure. In other words, if you enjoy life as it comes, you aren't plagued with the problems of craving, therefore the same rules don't apply.
- crusso 11y ago
  But you've lost the thread of the discussion. >> I was suffering every second, >Do you realize you are probably suffering every minute even >when you don't have to sit quietly? This wasn't about enjoying "life as it comes". This was about being addicted to the next stimulus; exposed by just trying to sit down and meditate for 20 minutes. You're conflating being able to handle and enjoy some chaos with the inability to tolerate a few moments of peace.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    > "You're conflating being able to handle and enjoy some chaos with the inability to tolerate a few moments of peace." The suggestion was that you suffer even when your mind is engaged in something where this suffering was not apparent. In other words, even when you don't feel like you're suffering, you probably are. I disagreed with this by pointing out that even though meditation has its merits, there are other ways to enjoy your life, and therefore this assumption that you're 'probably suffering' is somewhat of a stretch.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

Why can't you enjoy something for what it is? As I said, it's possible to enjoy chaos. You don't know what chaos will bring, but you can still enjoy it as it comes along. Desire is a misused word. It's used as a catch all for all pleasure seeking, but in reality it's a special type of pleasure seeking, a directed form of pleasure seeking based on craving. If you're a pleasure seeker that doesn't have any strong craving for one type of pleasure over another you're still grouped in with those that are addicted to certain types of pleasure. In other words, if you enjoy life as it comes, you aren't plagued with the problems of craving, therefore the same rules don't apply.

crusso 11y ago
But you've lost the thread of the discussion. >> I was suffering every second, >Do you realize you are probably suffering every minute even >when you don't have to sit quietly? This wasn't about enjoying "life as it comes". This was about being addicted to the next stimulus; exposed by just trying to sit down and meditate for 20 minutes. You're conflating being able to handle and enjoy some chaos with the inability to tolerate a few moments of peace.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  > "You're conflating being able to handle and enjoy some chaos with the inability to tolerate a few moments of peace." The suggestion was that you suffer even when your mind is engaged in something where this suffering was not apparent. In other words, even when you don't feel like you're suffering, you probably are. I disagreed with this by pointing out that even though meditation has its merits, there are other ways to enjoy your life, and therefore this assumption that you're 'probably suffering' is somewhat of a stretch.