5 ms·

Ask HN: Is it still possible to work in the US as a European?

With the H1B visa situation not getting better any time soon, are there still realistic ways of working as a software engineer in the US (especially the Bay Area) as a European, under the assumption that one is not a “rockstar programmer” (and neither studied nor worked in the US before)? I’m aware of three ways to get a visa as a European, but each of them seems futile: - L1: You kind of have to be lucky to find an employer that qualifies for this, or, well, be a Rockstar Programmer™ (and you’ll have to work for them one year outside the US first) - H1B: Unrealistic, not only because of the cap, but also because of time / effort / risk it takes for the employer - Diversity Lottery: Well, that’s lottery (chances are not that bad, though) I find it quite depressing that there’s basically no way that does not involve luck to work in the US as a more “average”, but ambitious, software developer / engineer. I could theoretically work anywhere in Europe, but well, the interesting stuff seems to be happening in the US (I currently work as a digital plumber, putting my university degree to waste).

eugenoprea 11y ago
If your work is above average then you should not have an issue getting a job from a US company that will arrange all the paperwork for you. Alternatively you could start by working in an European office, if the company is global and then find a way to relocate in the US. However, you would be better by working from home and start doing some freelance work until you get to the expert level. Then, you can get a job and work remotely for any company in the world. Everyone wants talented people. If you are talented it shouldn't be hard to find something good for you. If there is room for improvement do the work and get noticed by others.
alain94040 11y ago
Sure, it's hard. In your list, you forgot the E visa, which is extremely relevant to the HN crowd. Assuming you have a startup that is starting to take off in Europe, you will be able to move to the US to establish its US branch. It makes complete business sense (for a successful startup to expand to the US), and the visa is very easy to get (provided you use an experienced lawyer). The E visa may not work for you today, but two years from now, who knows where your European startup will be.
- bikeshedding247 11y ago
  Yeah, I guess that would be another option. But not everyone is an entrepreneur. At least I am not.
falsestprophet 11y ago
Most H1B visas go to average or below average developers working via large H1B sponsors like Tata, Infosys, Wipro and IBM ultimately working for IT departments of large corporations like banks and insurance companies. Only a small minority go to high level developers at product companies. Obviously, these visa sponsor companies (which call themselves "consultancies") sponsor visas almost exclusively for people from India. But, you could try to apply for jobs with them (possibly even through their Indian websites). Once you are on an H1B visa, you can try to transfer to another more exciting company.
wprapido 11y ago
if you are under 35, you can get a J1 visa fairly easy. basically, they bring you over as a paid intern. your salary and real scope of work don't necessarily need to be of an intern
- bikeshedding247 11y ago
  I did look at the J1 visa in the past, and as far as I remember it is a non-immigrant visa which basically allows you to work in the US for one internship, after which you will have to leave the country again. What I meant by “working in the US” was something like 2+ years (then there’s usually still the green card option).
  - wprapido 11y ago
    usually you can stay beyond the internship and adjust your status to H1B, O1, F1, ... what you really need is a foot in the door and establishing your presence in the states. once you set your foot on american soil, it gets much easier. any visa is better than no visa
gamechangr 11y ago
True - You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism. L1 - you do NOT need to be a "Rockstar" or anything close. You need to be persistent and producing code (Github). It can be average code, but many just want to see that you produce. H1B -- This is kind of true. It's more true if you are only interested in the Bay area. I would suggest you try to find a large company to sponsor you in a less than perfect location in the US. Getting to the Bay area as from another US city with a year of demonstrated ability it much, much easier. Keep trying! You will get it! Hope that helps.
- bikeshedding247 11y ago
  > You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism. Yes, that was kind of intentional to spur a discussion. I guess persistence (along with optimism) is the key. > Keep trying! You will get it! Thanks for your feedback and encouragement!
- aprdm 11y ago
  Why is it easier to get a H1B visa outside of the Bay Area?
  - justinv 11y ago
    It's not. In fact - I would argue that you have an easier shot with Bay Area companies sponsoring you due to capital availability and legal knowledge in the area of H1Bs.
    - gamechangr 11y ago
      I understand that thought process. For clarity, you think it would be easier to get a H1B sponsor in the Bay area than the rest of the country combined? If so, I'm interested to know what you think as far as experience. Would you think someone with 1-5 years experience (or 5-10 years experience) would have an easier time getting a H1B visa in the Bay area than other places -- say Austin or Boulder? Thanks for the feedback
canterburry 11y ago
I have seen an increased number of people getting visas based on extraordinary abilities. Some only have a news paper article that someone in their country published and some interesting project they did and that ends up qualifying them for an O-1 visa. You don't have to have a PhD or Nobel laureate to get these.
- wprapido 11y ago
  an argentine friend of mine, well known in JS world, has an O1 visa. so did a french friend of mine, who is a renowned graphic designer. but, you really don't need to be tesla or einstein to qualify
  - bikeshedding247 11y ago
    > you really don't need to be tesla or einstein to qualify Interesting. I didn’t think you have to be a von Neuman, but I always thought you’d have to be of a calibre like, say, Linus Torvalds.
    - wprapido 11y ago
      nahh... not really. just being above average and having a bit of a high profile is enough
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ones_and_zeros 11y ago
Lots of companies are getting around the H1B cap by setting up satellite offices at universities, since they are cap exempt. You are an employee of the university but all work is directed and owned by the company. Universities pay you out of a grant, which looks good for deans etc. and they take a cut. Downside is you are typically in the "academic" pay scale, which is significantly lower than typical H1B industry software engineer pay scales. But then again scores of H1B discount themselves because they value so highly being on US soil, so it may not look like so much of a discount to you. CUNY is doing a program with an entrepreneurship bend, but the sponsors of the program have come right out and said it's a loophole around the cap to get engineers. I'd think this loophole would be closed but with the overwhelming support for expanding the H1B program I don't think that'll be the case no matter who ends up as POTUS or which party is in control of Congress.
loumf 11y ago
Just look at the very large companies -- they have staff trained and ready to deal with visas and have no issues with it. I'm not just talking about the Google/MS/Apple/etc -- just very large companies (GE, IBM, Thomson Reuters, Lexmark, etc)
eshvk 11y ago
> I find it quite depressing Quit being so dramatic. There are enough good places in EU. There are loads of exciting startups in Stockholm, Berlin. Google has some interesting stuff going on in Zurich and London. > the interesting stuff seems to be happening in the US (I currently work as a digital plumber, putting my university degree to waste). There are enough plumbing jobs in the U.S. too. A vast majority of startup jobs in the Bay Area are exactly that. Plumbing. You either are specialized, in which case you have those jobs in both the EU and the U.S. Also, as a person who went thru the H1B, I can say that you will find it way easier with medium sized and larger companies to get someone to apply for an H1B. There is no need for micro-optimization in terms of cities and such.
- bikeshedding247 11y ago
  Thanks for your reply. In my particular case, I guess I should be working towards getting more specialized (I’m more of a “generalist” now I’d say).

eugenoprea 11y ago

If your work is above average then you should not have an issue getting a job from a US company that will arrange all the paperwork for you. Alternatively you could start by working in an European office, if the company is global and then find a way to relocate in the US. However, you would be better by working from home and start doing some freelance work until you get to the expert level. Then, you can get a job and work remotely for any company in the world. Everyone wants talented people. If you are talented it shouldn't be hard to find something good for you. If there is room for improvement do the work and get noticed by others.

alain94040 11y ago

Sure, it's hard. In your list, you forgot the E visa, which is extremely relevant to the HN crowd. Assuming you have a startup that is starting to take off in Europe, you will be able to move to the US to establish its US branch. It makes complete business sense (for a successful startup to expand to the US), and the visa is very easy to get (provided you use an experienced lawyer). The E visa may not work for you today, but two years from now, who knows where your European startup will be.

bikeshedding247 11y ago
Yeah, I guess that would be another option. But not everyone is an entrepreneur. At least I am not.

falsestprophet 11y ago

Most H1B visas go to average or below average developers working via large H1B sponsors like Tata, Infosys, Wipro and IBM ultimately working for IT departments of large corporations like banks and insurance companies. Only a small minority go to high level developers at product companies. Obviously, these visa sponsor companies (which call themselves "consultancies") sponsor visas almost exclusively for people from India. But, you could try to apply for jobs with them (possibly even through their Indian websites). Once you are on an H1B visa, you can try to transfer to another more exciting company.

wprapido 11y ago

if you are under 35, you can get a J1 visa fairly easy. basically, they bring you over as a paid intern. your salary and real scope of work don't necessarily need to be of an intern

bikeshedding247 11y ago
I did look at the J1 visa in the past, and as far as I remember it is a non-immigrant visa which basically allows you to work in the US for one internship, after which you will have to leave the country again. What I meant by “working in the US” was something like 2+ years (then there’s usually still the green card option).
- wprapido 11y ago
  usually you can stay beyond the internship and adjust your status to H1B, O1, F1, ... what you really need is a foot in the door and establishing your presence in the states. once you set your foot on american soil, it gets much easier. any visa is better than no visa

gamechangr 11y ago

True - You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism. L1 - you do NOT need to be a "Rockstar" or anything close. You need to be persistent and producing code (Github). It can be average code, but many just want to see that you produce. H1B -- This is kind of true. It's more true if you are only interested in the Bay area. I would suggest you try to find a large company to sponsor you in a less than perfect location in the US. Getting to the Bay area as from another US city with a year of demonstrated ability it much, much easier. Keep trying! You will get it! Hope that helps.

bikeshedding247 11y ago
> You have outlined the options, but added a half a dose of pessimism. Yes, that was kind of intentional to spur a discussion. I guess persistence (along with optimism) is the key. > Keep trying! You will get it! Thanks for your feedback and encouragement!
aprdm 11y ago
Why is it easier to get a H1B visa outside of the Bay Area?
- justinv 11y ago
  It's not. In fact - I would argue that you have an easier shot with Bay Area companies sponsoring you due to capital availability and legal knowledge in the area of H1Bs.
  - gamechangr 11y ago
    I understand that thought process. For clarity, you think it would be easier to get a H1B sponsor in the Bay area than the rest of the country combined? If so, I'm interested to know what you think as far as experience. Would you think someone with 1-5 years experience (or 5-10 years experience) would have an easier time getting a H1B visa in the Bay area than other places -- say Austin or Boulder? Thanks for the feedback

canterburry 11y ago

I have seen an increased number of people getting visas based on extraordinary abilities. Some only have a news paper article that someone in their country published and some interesting project they did and that ends up qualifying them for an O-1 visa. You don't have to have a PhD or Nobel laureate to get these.

wprapido 11y ago
an argentine friend of mine, well known in JS world, has an O1 visa. so did a french friend of mine, who is a renowned graphic designer. but, you really don't need to be tesla or einstein to qualify
- bikeshedding247 11y ago
  > you really don't need to be tesla or einstein to qualify Interesting. I didn’t think you have to be a von Neuman, but I always thought you’d have to be of a calibre like, say, Linus Torvalds.
  - wprapido 11y ago
    nahh... not really. just being above average and having a bit of a high profile is enough
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ones_and_zeros 11y ago

Lots of companies are getting around the H1B cap by setting up satellite offices at universities, since they are cap exempt. You are an employee of the university but all work is directed and owned by the company. Universities pay you out of a grant, which looks good for deans etc. and they take a cut. Downside is you are typically in the "academic" pay scale, which is significantly lower than typical H1B industry software engineer pay scales. But then again scores of H1B discount themselves because they value so highly being on US soil, so it may not look like so much of a discount to you. CUNY is doing a program with an entrepreneurship bend, but the sponsors of the program have come right out and said it's a loophole around the cap to get engineers. I'd think this loophole would be closed but with the overwhelming support for expanding the H1B program I don't think that'll be the case no matter who ends up as POTUS or which party is in control of Congress.

loumf 11y ago

Just look at the very large companies -- they have staff trained and ready to deal with visas and have no issues with it. I'm not just talking about the Google/MS/Apple/etc -- just very large companies (GE, IBM, Thomson Reuters, Lexmark, etc)

eshvk 11y ago

> I find it quite depressing Quit being so dramatic. There are enough good places in EU. There are loads of exciting startups in Stockholm, Berlin. Google has some interesting stuff going on in Zurich and London. > the interesting stuff seems to be happening in the US (I currently work as a digital plumber, putting my university degree to waste). There are enough plumbing jobs in the U.S. too. A vast majority of startup jobs in the Bay Area are exactly that. Plumbing. You either are specialized, in which case you have those jobs in both the EU and the U.S. Also, as a person who went thru the H1B, I can say that you will find it way easier with medium sized and larger companies to get someone to apply for an H1B. There is no need for micro-optimization in terms of cities and such.

bikeshedding247 11y ago
Thanks for your reply. In my particular case, I guess I should be working towards getting more specialized (I’m more of a “generalist” now I’d say).