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Regarding Apple's SoC bet, this is just crazy. In tech, this type of long-term strategy is unheard of. Who can bet what will still be here in three years ? five

by Aissen 11y ago

Regarding Apple's SoC bet, this is just crazy. In tech, this type of long-term strategy is unheard of. Who can bet what will still be here in three years ? five years ? 8 years is a long, long time. And they consistently made correct choices: be the first on ARMv7(then with samsung's chip), on ARMv8 (nobody belived in ARM 64 bits then), be the first to bet on powerful GPUs (and the crazy impact it has on the whole SoC). I hear they have been designing their own GPU for many years now, and I'm quite (half)surprised they haven't released anything yet: one does not simply acquire the 30-year expertise of Imagination in such a short timespan. NVIDIA tried going in the mobile SoC business, and after 5 generations and billions burned they finally gave up. What Apple did (and keeps doing, by putting Samsung, Qualcomm to shame[1]), is mind boggling. They are even approaching Intel's perf-per-watt[2] ratio. [1] http://anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus-review/6 http://anandtech.com/show/9686/the-apple-iphone-6s-and-iphon... [2]: http://anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-review/4 http://anandtech.com/show/9766/the-apple-ipad-pro-review/4

petra 11y ago
It's easy to mistake causation with regard to Apple's decisions. Did 64-bit became popular because it was better ? Or did 64-bit became popular because Apple chose it and it became a marketing term ? >> be the first to bet on powerful GPUs Sure they are the first to bet on expensive stuff - they have the most margin and sales, a more profitable ecosystem - so it's easier to justify the risk of more complex coding(by an app developer), etc. >> I hear they have been designing their own GPU for many years now From what i hear, they use the best of Imagination , while locking it out of the industry. But i would be happy to learn otherwise. And i'm not saying Apple didn't create an impressive chip, but creating impressive chips is much easier than sustaining a good business for them. Also ,the real power of the chip is for marketing - one critical tool in building luxury brands is a story about unique creation ,creating stuff that nobody else can do ,etc. So that's a very valuable story.
- monocasa 11y ago
  They have a ~10% stake in Imagination. That's pretty close to a controlling amount for practical purposes for a publicly traded company.
  - Aissen 11y ago
    Yes, and they don't need a stake in the company, as long as they are responsible for more than 10% of the revenue of the company, they basically have a say in the roadmap. If they ever chose to release their own GPU, they'll be sure to sell their stock on the same day the device using it is released.
- mineshaftgap 11y ago
  I understand people hate apple, but saying they are creating their own chips for marketing purposes is just delusional.
- Aissen 11y ago
  Regarding 64-bit/ARMv8: it was just the better choice, for many applications: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4 http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4 I don't see why it would be more complex coding, I'm pretty sure the move to ARMv8 was transparent to most developers (as it should be). They use the best of Imagination because of the ambitious goals, and because no one is even trying to push the boundaries; I'm not sure they have exclusivity on the designs, they just have a better SoC integration team, while TI choked on OMAP5 after the years of delay. Another bet for which they were the first: UFS PCIe storage, on mobile. The storage performance crushes all competition, it's sad. Honestly, most people don't know what a SoC is, so no, it's not a marketing ploy, even if Apple is marketing company. It's a (huge) technical bet.
sliverstorm 11y ago
be the first to bet on powerful GPUs (and the crazy impact it has on the whole SoC) ... Eh? Which bet are you referring to?
- Aissen 11y ago
  Back when they bought the mobile SoC with the biggest GPU from Samsung, co-designed with Intrinsity, which they then bought under Samsung's feet. At the time almost all SoCs had anemic GPUs, and Android was betting on a software rendering pipeline.

by Aissen 11y ago

petra 11y ago

It's easy to mistake causation with regard to Apple's decisions. Did 64-bit became popular because it was better ? Or did 64-bit became popular because Apple chose it and it became a marketing term ? >> be the first to bet on powerful GPUs Sure they are the first to bet on expensive stuff - they have the most margin and sales, a more profitable ecosystem - so it's easier to justify the risk of more complex coding(by an app developer), etc. >> I hear they have been designing their own GPU for many years now From what i hear, they use the best of Imagination , while locking it out of the industry. But i would be happy to learn otherwise. And i'm not saying Apple didn't create an impressive chip, but creating impressive chips is much easier than sustaining a good business for them. Also ,the real power of the chip is for marketing - one critical tool in building luxury brands is a story about unique creation ,creating stuff that nobody else can do ,etc. So that's a very valuable story.

monocasa 11y ago
They have a ~10% stake in Imagination. That's pretty close to a controlling amount for practical purposes for a publicly traded company.
- Aissen 11y ago
  Yes, and they don't need a stake in the company, as long as they are responsible for more than 10% of the revenue of the company, they basically have a say in the roadmap. If they ever chose to release their own GPU, they'll be sure to sell their stock on the same day the device using it is released.
mineshaftgap 11y ago
I understand people hate apple, but saying they are creating their own chips for marketing purposes is just delusional.
Aissen 11y ago
Regarding 64-bit/ARMv8: it was just the better choice, for many applications: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4 http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/the-iphone-5s-review/4 I don't see why it would be more complex coding, I'm pretty sure the move to ARMv8 was transparent to most developers (as it should be). They use the best of Imagination because of the ambitious goals, and because no one is even trying to push the boundaries; I'm not sure they have exclusivity on the designs, they just have a better SoC integration team, while TI choked on OMAP5 after the years of delay. Another bet for which they were the first: UFS PCIe storage, on mobile. The storage performance crushes all competition, it's sad. Honestly, most people don't know what a SoC is, so no, it's not a marketing ploy, even if Apple is marketing company. It's a (huge) technical bet.

sliverstorm 11y ago

be the first to bet on powerful GPUs (and the crazy impact it has on the whole SoC) ... Eh? Which bet are you referring to?

Aissen 11y ago
Back when they bought the mobile SoC with the biggest GPU from Samsung, co-designed with Intrinsity, which they then bought under Samsung's feet. At the time almost all SoCs had anemic GPUs, and Android was betting on a software rendering pipeline.