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> A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. As someone who's been homeless twice, I appreciate

by iuguy 11y ago

> A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. As someone who's been homeless twice, I appreciate that you don't intend to offend, but this is a very loaded and offensive statement. You appear to work with homeless people and have very little sympathy for their situation, which I can understand but it still makes me a little sad. Becoming homeless is something that can happen to anyone for any number of reasons, and there are different kinds of being homeless. Once you become homeless it becomes harder as time goes on to move back to something permanent. Booze and drugs can sometimes be a simple manner of being able to sleep, or to get away from the situation you're in or how you got there. Choices that seem nonsensical for those who have a warm bed every night make perfect sense when you're worn down by the elements and incredibly poor sleep. After a while the prospect of having to deal with the build up of shit in your life and get shit together becomes a bigger mountain to climb than carrying on when you are, even though your everyday struggle is a mountain of shit in itself. It's not that people choose a lifestyle as such, it's that sometimes it feels less painful to have a permanent known level of shit in your life than to fight all the way back up to get a permanent place to live and risk being knocked back when you're already pretty fragile. Being homeless is the suckiest thing you can probably reasonably imagine.

yuudu_literal 11y ago
These kind of responses have a chilling effect on debate and progress. > this is a very loaded and offensive statement So the fuck what? If you aren't allowed to consider anything offensive, we'd never discuss the difficult issues and make progress on them. > something that can happen to anyone for any number of reasons, and there are different kinds of being homeless Yeah blah blah blah he's not saying 'absolutely every homeless person is like this', he's suggesting that maybe the situation isn't as everyone assumes, which may be the case. But you've shut him down with some 'not every homeless' person bullshit. > It's not that people choose a lifestyle as such He didn't say choose did he? He said they prefer it - I presume he means prefer it to being institutionalised. You seem to suggest that he thinks they prefer it to being a millionaire, which of course they do not. Have you ever heard of the idea of being charitable in how you interpret other people's thoughts? > Being homeless is the suckiest thing you can probably reasonably imagine. Who are you arguing with here? Who disagrees with you? All he said is that some of these homeless people may prefer being on the street to being taken into the care of the state. You are destroying debate!
- dang 11y ago
  Please don't create throwaway accounts on HN for the purpose of breaking the rules. There's no point here that you couldn't have made civilly. You reacted as if iuguy had tried to "shut down" discussion with an ideological dictum, but that's not at all what he did. Both iuguy and monkmartinez have commented out of deep personal experience. We're incredibly fortunate to have commenters posting from that level, most of all in so rage-baity a thread. Showing up with a bullhorn and blaring angry arguments is the last thing you should be doing on HN to begin with, but to insert that at the most meaningful point of human communication in this thread is really an abuse.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
monkmartinez 11y ago
I have empathy for everyone. Sympathy is completely different. Why should I feel sorry for <bob> my regular that I've known for years and absolutely does not want help? I empathize with his situation as I wouldn't choose that lifestyle. Beyond that, society doesn't owe him anything. It is complex and every story is different. I am sure if I knew every story, there would be some that I would feel sympathy and perhaps compelled to act... but so far, those have been very rare. > Booze and drugs can sometimes be a simple manner of being able to sleep, or to get away from the situation you're in or how you got there. Choices that seem nonsensical for those who have a warm bed every night make perfect sense when you're worn down by the elements and incredibly poor sleep. After a while the prospect of having to deal with the build up of shit in your life and get shit together becomes a bigger mountain to climb than carrying on when you are, even though your everyday struggle is a mountain of shit in itself. I am not guaranteed a warm bed every night. No one is, if you really think about it. Further, you just described being a police officer, fire fighter/ems person with the stresses of the job. Suicide[1], booze/drugs, divorce, anger management are all unfortunate parts of the job for many. How they choose to deal with these issues are another matter entirely. Sleep issues are a major pain point for me. I choose this life so I have had to develop strategies to deal with it. Some people can't deal with the stress, so they quit/move on, mask it with booze/drugs, have significant behavioural (anger) issues, or kill themselves. Sound familiar? [1]http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=2669&issue_id=52012 http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseac... http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Firefighters-Address-Alarming-Suicide-Rates-258225891.html http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Firefighters-Addres...

by iuguy 11y ago

yuudu_literal 11y ago

These kind of responses have a chilling effect on debate and progress. > this is a very loaded and offensive statement So the fuck what? If you aren't allowed to consider anything offensive, we'd never discuss the difficult issues and make progress on them. > something that can happen to anyone for any number of reasons, and there are different kinds of being homeless Yeah blah blah blah he's not saying 'absolutely every homeless person is like this', he's suggesting that maybe the situation isn't as everyone assumes, which may be the case. But you've shut him down with some 'not every homeless' person bullshit. > It's not that people choose a lifestyle as such He didn't say choose did he? He said they prefer it - I presume he means prefer it to being institutionalised. You seem to suggest that he thinks they prefer it to being a millionaire, which of course they do not. Have you ever heard of the idea of being charitable in how you interpret other people's thoughts? > Being homeless is the suckiest thing you can probably reasonably imagine. Who are you arguing with here? Who disagrees with you? All he said is that some of these homeless people may prefer being on the street to being taken into the care of the state. You are destroying debate!

dang 11y ago
Please don't create throwaway accounts on HN for the purpose of breaking the rules. There's no point here that you couldn't have made civilly. You reacted as if iuguy had tried to "shut down" discussion with an ideological dictum, but that's not at all what he did. Both iuguy and monkmartinez have commented out of deep personal experience. We're incredibly fortunate to have commenters posting from that level, most of all in so rage-baity a thread. Showing up with a bullhorn and blaring angry arguments is the last thing you should be doing on HN to begin with, but to insert that at the most meaningful point of human communication in this thread is really an abuse.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

monkmartinez 11y ago

I have empathy for everyone. Sympathy is completely different. Why should I feel sorry for <bob> my regular that I've known for years and absolutely does not want help? I empathize with his situation as I wouldn't choose that lifestyle. Beyond that, society doesn't owe him anything. It is complex and every story is different. I am sure if I knew every story, there would be some that I would feel sympathy and perhaps compelled to act... but so far, those have been very rare. > Booze and drugs can sometimes be a simple manner of being able to sleep, or to get away from the situation you're in or how you got there. Choices that seem nonsensical for those who have a warm bed every night make perfect sense when you're worn down by the elements and incredibly poor sleep. After a while the prospect of having to deal with the build up of shit in your life and get shit together becomes a bigger mountain to climb than carrying on when you are, even though your everyday struggle is a mountain of shit in itself. I am not guaranteed a warm bed every night. No one is, if you really think about it. Further, you just described being a police officer, fire fighter/ems person with the stresses of the job. Suicide[1], booze/drugs, divorce, anger management are all unfortunate parts of the job for many. How they choose to deal with these issues are another matter entirely. Sleep issues are a major pain point for me. I choose this life so I have had to develop strategies to deal with it. Some people can't deal with the stress, so they quit/move on, mask it with booze/drugs, have significant behavioural (anger) issues, or kill themselves. Sound familiar? [1]http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=2669&issue_id=52012 http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseac... http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Firefighters-Address-Alarming-Suicide-Rates-258225891.html http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/Firefighters-Addres...