4 ms·

Are there any non-garbage home security systems?

brandon272 11y ago
I did a lot of research on this a while back and concluded that, no, there don't appear to be. I was hoping that Nest, despite some of their shortcomings, would try to tackle this market. Seemed like a more obvious market for them to move into, as opposed to smoke alarms.
- dpeck 11y ago
  Dropcam had plans to go towards that, but seems they were squashed with the acquisition.
throwaway21816 11y ago
You could make one. A bunch of ESP8266 modules connecting back to a rasberrypi via SSL with a strict sensor timeout would mitigate the comcast alarm style bypasses. As for a remote, key fobs are so 1990s! Connect your smart phone using an app. Ta-da! A custom alarm system that doesnt suck.
- throwaway21816 11y ago
  To add to this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13285 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13285 + https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13247 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13247 + https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8653 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8653 + https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13120 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13120 You now have 99% of the security offered by an alarm system, go buy an ADT yard sign from Amazon and you have 99.9%
- rubidium 11y ago
  You're missing the security of calling the cops. Your system won't have that. Noise-makers are the "easy" part of security (they sell off the shelf ones for pretty cheap, no need for homemade).
  - throwaway21816 11y ago
    Have it call you then you can call the cops or have it call your neighbors. The utility of calling cops is vastly over-rated in most parts of the United States due to police response times being slow.
  - mirchiseth 11y ago
    Yep, that is the difficult piece. It would be nice if there was company that does that for consumers. Essentially DIY security system + A company that a consumer can sign up for monitoring the alerts and calling cops etc. A cheap cell phone plan would also be needed as well.
  - throwaway545903 11y ago
    Calling the cops really does no good depending on where you live. I had a false alarm a few years back while I was away from home. Three hours later and about an hour after I had returned home, an officer came by to check on the alarm. No, I had never had any false alarms prior to this one. I live in a moderately sized suburb, not Detroit.
Someone1234 11y ago
I do not believe so. Perhaps commerical grade stuff? But in the consumer space, it is all overpriced and "bad." But consumer electronics are generally insecure: garage doors, baby monitors, electronic door locks, even cars historically. They all ultimately rely on security through obscurity because convenience sells. Nobody wants their garage to lock them out because the clocks got misaligned, or firmware update the clicker because the encryption protocol from the 1990s is trivially broken. Frequency hopping would be more common, but many consumer electronics only utilise two frequencies because that is all that is allocated. So that is out. And while they could use fixed key encryption (e.g. serial number), it doesn't defend against a replay attack (and if defence is added, like a counter, it can break the system in a number of fun ways (e.g. batteries running out, signals being lost, cross-device interference, etc)).
drone 11y ago
It depends on what one means by "garbage", but I've found that hard-wired systems (i.e. wires for all sensors) backed by something like the standard Honeywell Ademco Vista series attached to a real cellular uplink works most reliably. We use them at home and at business, and for what a home security system is supposed to do (make noise when an intrusion occurs and send a signal out so that you know about it) its the most reliable setup I've ever used. (Not to mention, provides a ton of options for "hacking" your system to your needs.) Just, whatever you do, do NOT let some crazy internet-connected service, like XFinity Home hook up to it. All of your reliability goes out the window the second they hook up their stupid takeover devices.
- bcook 11y ago
  Honeywell was the brand back when I installed security systems. Ancient (analog modem, iirc) interfaces, but quite dependable.
kefka 11y ago
Yes, there's a full machine-learning stack you can buy. Has auto-mapping, heuristics, active listening, voice commands, and can easily move from room to room. Also equipped with weapons platform to deter people who shouldn't be there. A dog.
- brandon272 11y ago
  Produces a lot of organic waste though.
- Xylakant 11y ago
  I own a dog, and I can tell you that the machine-learning features are generally overrated. It tends to learn what you don't want it to learn and tends to forget about the things you want it to learn. It's also high-maintenance and can't be left alone for extended periods of time. It's also vulnerable to a "replay offer steak" attack. (12/10 for enriching my life, would do again)

I did a lot of research on this a while back and concluded that, no, there don't appear to be. I was hoping that Nest, despite some of their shortcomings, would try to tackle this market. Seemed like a more obvious market for them to move into, as opposed to smoke alarms.

dpeck 11y ago
Dropcam had plans to go towards that, but seems they were squashed with the acquisition.

throwaway21816 11y ago

You could make one. A bunch of ESP8266 modules connecting back to a rasberrypi via SSL with a strict sensor timeout would mitigate the comcast alarm style bypasses. As for a remote, key fobs are so 1990s! Connect your smart phone using an app. Ta-da! A custom alarm system that doesnt suck.

throwaway21816 11y ago
To add to this: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13285 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13285 + https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13247 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13247 + https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8653 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8653 + https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13120 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13120 You now have 99% of the security offered by an alarm system, go buy an ADT yard sign from Amazon and you have 99.9%
rubidium 11y ago
You're missing the security of calling the cops. Your system won't have that. Noise-makers are the "easy" part of security (they sell off the shelf ones for pretty cheap, no need for homemade).
- throwaway21816 11y ago
  Have it call you then you can call the cops or have it call your neighbors. The utility of calling cops is vastly over-rated in most parts of the United States due to police response times being slow.
- mirchiseth 11y ago
  Yep, that is the difficult piece. It would be nice if there was company that does that for consumers. Essentially DIY security system + A company that a consumer can sign up for monitoring the alerts and calling cops etc. A cheap cell phone plan would also be needed as well.
- throwaway545903 11y ago
  Calling the cops really does no good depending on where you live. I had a false alarm a few years back while I was away from home. Three hours later and about an hour after I had returned home, an officer came by to check on the alarm. No, I had never had any false alarms prior to this one. I live in a moderately sized suburb, not Detroit.

Someone1234 11y ago

I do not believe so. Perhaps commerical grade stuff? But in the consumer space, it is all overpriced and "bad." But consumer electronics are generally insecure: garage doors, baby monitors, electronic door locks, even cars historically. They all ultimately rely on security through obscurity because convenience sells. Nobody wants their garage to lock them out because the clocks got misaligned, or firmware update the clicker because the encryption protocol from the 1990s is trivially broken. Frequency hopping would be more common, but many consumer electronics only utilise two frequencies because that is all that is allocated. So that is out. And while they could use fixed key encryption (e.g. serial number), it doesn't defend against a replay attack (and if defence is added, like a counter, it can break the system in a number of fun ways (e.g. batteries running out, signals being lost, cross-device interference, etc)).

drone 11y ago

It depends on what one means by "garbage", but I've found that hard-wired systems (i.e. wires for all sensors) backed by something like the standard Honeywell Ademco Vista series attached to a real cellular uplink works most reliably. We use them at home and at business, and for what a home security system is supposed to do (make noise when an intrusion occurs and send a signal out so that you know about it) its the most reliable setup I've ever used. (Not to mention, provides a ton of options for "hacking" your system to your needs.) Just, whatever you do, do NOT let some crazy internet-connected service, like XFinity Home hook up to it. All of your reliability goes out the window the second they hook up their stupid takeover devices.

bcook 11y ago
Honeywell was the brand back when I installed security systems. Ancient (analog modem, iirc) interfaces, but quite dependable.

kefka 11y ago

Yes, there's a full machine-learning stack you can buy. Has auto-mapping, heuristics, active listening, voice commands, and can easily move from room to room. Also equipped with weapons platform to deter people who shouldn't be there. A dog.

brandon272 11y ago
Produces a lot of organic waste though.
Xylakant 11y ago
I own a dog, and I can tell you that the machine-learning features are generally overrated. It tends to learn what you don't want it to learn and tends to forget about the things you want it to learn. It's also high-maintenance and can't be left alone for extended periods of time. It's also vulnerable to a "replay offer steak" attack. (12/10 for enriching my life, would do again)