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The "homeless" must want and work (mentally and emotionally) for help in order for it to work. fullstop. In my experience, most do not want to put in the effor

The "homeless" must want and work (mentally and emotionally) for help in order for it to work. fullstop. In my experience, most do not want to put in the effort to kick the habits, contribute to society in a meaningful way, or tell you it is too late. The reality is a lot of them prefer the "lifestyle" and "freedom" to do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want to do it. They have a completely different take on life than "most" people.

iamnothere 11y ago
Not if the government takes the perspective that housing is a human right, regardless of an individual's mental health or substance abuse problems, willingness or capacity to work, or even criminal history. Some would argue that a country has a duty to shelter its citizens, and research shows that the more difficult problems associated with homelessness can be solved by focusing on housing first, then taking on other issues. The Housing First movement takes this stance, and has seen some success: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First
zepto 11y ago
It's pretty clear that you have absolutely zero experience about mental health or human psychology. Amongst other things, most people will attempt to adapt to their situation and retain a sense of agency. That is one reason why you'll find that homeless people speak of the positive aspects of their lifestyle and act as though it's a choice. This is no different from a startup founder extolling the virtues of their 80 hour week.
- monkmartinez 11y ago
  You are right; I am not a clinical psychologist. In some cases, I deal with people when the shit has hit the fan. That is, I know how most people react to really bad events because I see it quite regularly. In other cases, I deal with the long, slow, and painful descent age and terminal disease bring to people's mental faculties. In yet other cases, I get to talk with regular 911 callers that we wake up with Narcan, drunks that are simply sleeping on the side of the road, drug seekers that have "fallen" or been "hit by a car" (with no injury to speak of)... and more. So, generally speaking, I get to see people when they are being quite "real" or at least "true" to the event that has taken place. That doesn't make me an expert in human psychology, and I would not claim such. However, as a group, EMS personnel can cut through the bullshit a lot faster than most. Over the course of years, comparing what people say to what they do... one can not mistake the patterns. No "human psychology" textbook will teach you that.
  - zepto 11y ago
    But you know nothing about how to treat these people and all you can do is blame them for their own predicament. What use is that?
vkou 11y ago
I've never been homeless, but I do think that if you've been knocked down every time you try to get up, after a point, you'll stop trying to get up... Nor will you take a hand that's being offered. Most of the help the homeless get is ephemeral, at best - and won't necessarily get them off the street. It's no wonder that many choose to not fight that fight.

iamnothere 11y ago

Not if the government takes the perspective that housing is a human right, regardless of an individual's mental health or substance abuse problems, willingness or capacity to work, or even criminal history. Some would argue that a country has a duty to shelter its citizens, and research shows that the more difficult problems associated with homelessness can be solved by focusing on housing first, then taking on other issues. The Housing First movement takes this stance, and has seen some success: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First

zepto 11y ago

It's pretty clear that you have absolutely zero experience about mental health or human psychology. Amongst other things, most people will attempt to adapt to their situation and retain a sense of agency. That is one reason why you'll find that homeless people speak of the positive aspects of their lifestyle and act as though it's a choice. This is no different from a startup founder extolling the virtues of their 80 hour week.

monkmartinez 11y ago
You are right; I am not a clinical psychologist. In some cases, I deal with people when the shit has hit the fan. That is, I know how most people react to really bad events because I see it quite regularly. In other cases, I deal with the long, slow, and painful descent age and terminal disease bring to people's mental faculties. In yet other cases, I get to talk with regular 911 callers that we wake up with Narcan, drunks that are simply sleeping on the side of the road, drug seekers that have "fallen" or been "hit by a car" (with no injury to speak of)... and more. So, generally speaking, I get to see people when they are being quite "real" or at least "true" to the event that has taken place. That doesn't make me an expert in human psychology, and I would not claim such. However, as a group, EMS personnel can cut through the bullshit a lot faster than most. Over the course of years, comparing what people say to what they do... one can not mistake the patterns. No "human psychology" textbook will teach you that.
- zepto 11y ago
  But you know nothing about how to treat these people and all you can do is blame them for their own predicament. What use is that?

vkou 11y ago

I've never been homeless, but I do think that if you've been knocked down every time you try to get up, after a point, you'll stop trying to get up... Nor will you take a hand that's being offered. Most of the help the homeless get is ephemeral, at best - and won't necessarily get them off the street. It's no wonder that many choose to not fight that fight.