5 ms·

Certainly not very compassionate, but is it true that the homeless in San Francisco have a drug problem that is making the area unsafe? Is nobody trying to tre

by lhnz 11y ago

Certainly not very compassionate, but is it true that the homeless in San Francisco have a drug problem that is making the area unsafe? Is nobody trying to treat or house these people? Shouldn't people take this piece and use it as further evidence that there is a problem that needs to be fixed, rather than merely a culture war they can take part in? As usual, everybody want's to talk about how much of a 'bro' this guy is, but nobody gives a shit about improving the lives of the homeless.

monkmartinez 11y ago
The "homeless" must want and work (mentally and emotionally) for help in order for it to work. fullstop. In my experience, most do not want to put in the effort to kick the habits, contribute to society in a meaningful way, or tell you it is too late. The reality is a lot of them prefer the "lifestyle" and "freedom" to do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want to do it. They have a completely different take on life than "most" people.
- iamnothere 11y ago
  Not if the government takes the perspective that housing is a human right, regardless of an individual's mental health or substance abuse problems, willingness or capacity to work, or even criminal history. Some would argue that a country has a duty to shelter its citizens, and research shows that the more difficult problems associated with homelessness can be solved by focusing on housing first, then taking on other issues. The Housing First movement takes this stance, and has seen some success: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First
- zepto 11y ago
  It's pretty clear that you have absolutely zero experience about mental health or human psychology. Amongst other things, most people will attempt to adapt to their situation and retain a sense of agency. That is one reason why you'll find that homeless people speak of the positive aspects of their lifestyle and act as though it's a choice. This is no different from a startup founder extolling the virtues of their 80 hour week.
  - monkmartinez 11y ago
    You are right; I am not a clinical psychologist. In some cases, I deal with people when the shit has hit the fan. That is, I know how most people react to really bad events because I see it quite regularly. In other cases, I deal with the long, slow, and painful descent age and terminal disease bring to people's mental faculties. In yet other cases, I get to talk with regular 911 callers that we wake up with Narcan, drunks that are simply sleeping on the side of the road, drug seekers that have "fallen" or been "hit by a car" (with no injury to speak of)... and more. So, generally speaking, I get to see people when they are being quite "real" or at least "true" to the event that has taken place. That doesn't make me an expert in human psychology, and I would not claim such. However, as a group, EMS personnel can cut through the bullshit a lot faster than most. Over the course of years, comparing what people say to what they do... one can not mistake the patterns. No "human psychology" textbook will teach you that.
    - zepto 11y ago
      But you know nothing about how to treat these people and all you can do is blame them for their own predicament. What use is that?
- vkou 11y ago
  I've never been homeless, but I do think that if you've been knocked down every time you try to get up, after a point, you'll stop trying to get up... Nor will you take a hand that's being offered. Most of the help the homeless get is ephemeral, at best - and won't necessarily get them off the street. It's no wonder that many choose to not fight that fight.
sixQuarks 11y ago
I understand where this kid is coming from. He worded things terribly, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Instead of attacking him, people should be trying to figure out what to do about this problem. The homeless problem has really gotten out of hand in SF - and violent crime too. I know several people that have been attacked and robbed near market street. I left SF in 2014 after living there since 1999. It's a very different city these days, the "cost of living" to "quality of life" ratio is perhaps the worst of any city in America.
wmil 11y ago
The problem goes back to 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' and the 'Deinstitutionalisation' movement in the 70s. Basically they shut down psychiatric facilities instead of fixing them. Now no one has a good solution for people who need care but don't qualify current programs.

by lhnz 11y ago

monkmartinez 11y ago

The "homeless" must want and work (mentally and emotionally) for help in order for it to work. fullstop. In my experience, most do not want to put in the effort to kick the habits, contribute to society in a meaningful way, or tell you it is too late. The reality is a lot of them prefer the "lifestyle" and "freedom" to do whatever the hell they want whenever the hell they want to do it. They have a completely different take on life than "most" people.

iamnothere 11y ago
Not if the government takes the perspective that housing is a human right, regardless of an individual's mental health or substance abuse problems, willingness or capacity to work, or even criminal history. Some would argue that a country has a duty to shelter its citizens, and research shows that the more difficult problems associated with homelessness can be solved by focusing on housing first, then taking on other issues. The Housing First movement takes this stance, and has seen some success: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First
zepto 11y ago
It's pretty clear that you have absolutely zero experience about mental health or human psychology. Amongst other things, most people will attempt to adapt to their situation and retain a sense of agency. That is one reason why you'll find that homeless people speak of the positive aspects of their lifestyle and act as though it's a choice. This is no different from a startup founder extolling the virtues of their 80 hour week.
- monkmartinez 11y ago
  You are right; I am not a clinical psychologist. In some cases, I deal with people when the shit has hit the fan. That is, I know how most people react to really bad events because I see it quite regularly. In other cases, I deal with the long, slow, and painful descent age and terminal disease bring to people's mental faculties. In yet other cases, I get to talk with regular 911 callers that we wake up with Narcan, drunks that are simply sleeping on the side of the road, drug seekers that have "fallen" or been "hit by a car" (with no injury to speak of)... and more. So, generally speaking, I get to see people when they are being quite "real" or at least "true" to the event that has taken place. That doesn't make me an expert in human psychology, and I would not claim such. However, as a group, EMS personnel can cut through the bullshit a lot faster than most. Over the course of years, comparing what people say to what they do... one can not mistake the patterns. No "human psychology" textbook will teach you that.
  - zepto 11y ago
    But you know nothing about how to treat these people and all you can do is blame them for their own predicament. What use is that?
vkou 11y ago
I've never been homeless, but I do think that if you've been knocked down every time you try to get up, after a point, you'll stop trying to get up... Nor will you take a hand that's being offered. Most of the help the homeless get is ephemeral, at best - and won't necessarily get them off the street. It's no wonder that many choose to not fight that fight.

sixQuarks 11y ago

I understand where this kid is coming from. He worded things terribly, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Instead of attacking him, people should be trying to figure out what to do about this problem. The homeless problem has really gotten out of hand in SF - and violent crime too. I know several people that have been attacked and robbed near market street. I left SF in 2014 after living there since 1999. It's a very different city these days, the "cost of living" to "quality of life" ratio is perhaps the worst of any city in America.

wmil 11y ago

The problem goes back to 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' and the 'Deinstitutionalisation' movement in the 70s. Basically they shut down psychiatric facilities instead of fixing them. Now no one has a good solution for people who need care but don't qualify current programs.