7 ms·

Just to put things in perspective, filling up a gas tank here is still cheaper than buying a two liter coke bottle. 30 liters of gas will cost Bs. 30 or Bs. 18

by rafaelm 11y ago

Just to put things in perspective, filling up a gas tank here is still cheaper than buying a two liter coke bottle. 30 liters of gas will cost Bs. 30 or Bs. 180 depending on the type you use. A 2 liter coke costs Bs.500. A McDonalds meal costs around Bs.1000 (Add Bs. 500 if you want fries fries. Fries are imported for some reason. I might be off on the price, I haven't been there in a while.) And this will not stop the smuggling of gasoline to Colombia and Brazil, since the price differential is still so big. It reduces profits a bit, but it's still worth it for those that can do it (mostly military mafias that control the border). EDIT: just to expand a bit on the subject, the price has been fixed since 1996 I think. The govt subsidies on gas are ridiculous. The country was losing around US$12500 million a year through the subsidy. Add to that, Chavez started PetroCaribe as a way to "sell" cheap oil to caribbean nations (in exchange for loyalty) that was never paid , or paid with beans,etc. Now that the oil prices are so low, we have no income.Most of the money that came in to the country was stolen by govt officials (composed mostly of military men) and we have a huge debt obligations and low international reserves. Now it's time to tighten our belts. Lines to buy food are enormous. You can only buy certain things twice a week if you can find them (according to the last number of your national ID). Medicines are dissapearing. Maduro is looking everywhere he can to find some money, but there's not much he can do really.

JumpCrisscross 11y ago
> the country was losing around US$12.50 million a year through the subsidy Try $1.7 billion as of 2013 [1]. [1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.es%2Finternacional%2F20130515%2Fabci-venezuela-gasolina-201305142039.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- rafaelm 11y ago
  Yeah , I realized I missed a zero there! Edited. This Forbes[1] article has even worse numbers. Filling up the tank here is something people don't think about. People even tip the gas pump attendant two or three times the cost of the full tank (that's obviously over now). The reason we are angry is not because we now have to pay a very low price for gas. The reason is that this country had a huge bonanza and it was all stolen and now the govt says its because of the "economic war" the US and allies are waging against Venezuela. Apparently, the fact that the US is extracting shale oil is all just a plan to topple Putin and Maduro. And now that OPEC wants to break the shale oil companies is another evil plan. It's everyone elses fault that after 18 years of the highest income we've ever had, we now have no money for the rainy days. [1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/01/26/that-venezuelan-economic-experiment-gasoline-isnt-just-cheap-its-free/#73ba1f193c41 http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/01/26/that-vene...
  - AI_Overlord 11y ago
    You had to have seen all of this coming when chavez started nationalizing everything. Even I from the outside knew things would not end well when chavez, and then maduro, got elected. It certainly has been a terrible price for the bolivian revolution experiment.
    - rafaelm 11y ago
      Everyone who has a minimum knowledge of economics has been warning about this for ages. Chavez even said once that our economy was bulletproof, that even if the oil prices plummet to zero, we were going to be OK. I now fear that the only way out is through massive riots for food and medicines. The same people that held Chavismo in power these past years have to be the ones that remove them from power. And it's not going to be pretty.
  - SEJeff 11y ago
    As an American who attempts to keep up with the political situation going on in Venezuela... I know that Chavez stayed in power relatively easily during the oil boom by giving free handouts to many of the impoverished. How does Maduro actually stay in power? It seems like from the outside, with the violence, inflation, and general instability, that Maduro has failed to keep the Bolivar Revolution viable. Do you think Maduro, or one of his chronies will eventually be voted out by the populace? I'm genuinely interested in your side of the story as I can't get non-biased news in the US about Venezuela.
topspin 11y ago
Except the history hasn't been one where Venezuelans merely `tighten belts' and struggle through. The last time this happened (suddenly raising gas prices because the financial gears have finally stripped) under Pérez the Caracazo happened. That led to Chávez and the complete destruction of the Venezuelan economy. There is no hope. Venezuela is in for violence and coups again. You should expect one of the outlying cities to go nuclear soon as the last trickle of goods dry up at some PDVAL outlet and hungry people start throwing stuff. The international media will suddenly rediscover Venezuela and adopt the usual talking points about low oil prices, studiously ignoring the last 17 years of deliberate left-wing economic destruction. Then the cries for `humanitarian aid'... and if it isn't forthcoming double-time then we'll be blamed for every subsequent tragedy. My sympathy for this is already exhausted. When Chávez-then-Maduro struggled with elections they put a gun to the head of electronics shop owners and let `the people' steal the flat screens at fairy tale prices. When citizens are so debased as to believe that this is a legitimate way to run things -- and indeed vote for it -- then no amount is suffering is undeserved. I can find sympathy for the children, but everyone else has earned what is coming. And that includes all the financiers when Venezuela defaults and their money goes to money heaven.
- rafaelm 11y ago
  I also think a violent outcome is the only way for a change to happen, unfortunately. But I don't know how far away it is. We've already been through a lot and people seem to just go about their daily business like zombies. Wake up, go to the markets to line up to get a handout (if it's your turn that day), repeat. Things are getting more and more desperate, but I don't see a breaking point. I don't know if people are just waiting for things to sort themselves out or what. We have frequent power outages, no food , no medicine (I've been looking for an iron supplement for my pregnant wife for over a week now), nothing. And people just keep rolling with it. Let's see how long the patience lasts. It's not going to be pretty unfortunately.
  - bitJericho 11y ago
    Riots happen after people can't get food or water. That will happen very soon. I would get out of there now if you can. Good luck.

by rafaelm 11y ago

JumpCrisscross 11y ago

> the country was losing around US$12.50 million a year through the subsidy Try $1.7 billion as of 2013 [1]. [1] https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.es%2Finternacional%2F20130515%2Fabci-venezuela-gasolina-201305142039.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
rafaelm 11y ago
Yeah , I realized I missed a zero there! Edited. This Forbes[1] article has even worse numbers. Filling up the tank here is something people don't think about. People even tip the gas pump attendant two or three times the cost of the full tank (that's obviously over now). The reason we are angry is not because we now have to pay a very low price for gas. The reason is that this country had a huge bonanza and it was all stolen and now the govt says its because of the "economic war" the US and allies are waging against Venezuela. Apparently, the fact that the US is extracting shale oil is all just a plan to topple Putin and Maduro. And now that OPEC wants to break the shale oil companies is another evil plan. It's everyone elses fault that after 18 years of the highest income we've ever had, we now have no money for the rainy days. [1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/01/26/that-venezuelan-economic-experiment-gasoline-isnt-just-cheap-its-free/#73ba1f193c41 http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/01/26/that-vene...
- AI_Overlord 11y ago
  You had to have seen all of this coming when chavez started nationalizing everything. Even I from the outside knew things would not end well when chavez, and then maduro, got elected. It certainly has been a terrible price for the bolivian revolution experiment.
  - rafaelm 11y ago
    Everyone who has a minimum knowledge of economics has been warning about this for ages. Chavez even said once that our economy was bulletproof, that even if the oil prices plummet to zero, we were going to be OK. I now fear that the only way out is through massive riots for food and medicines. The same people that held Chavismo in power these past years have to be the ones that remove them from power. And it's not going to be pretty.
- SEJeff 11y ago
  As an American who attempts to keep up with the political situation going on in Venezuela... I know that Chavez stayed in power relatively easily during the oil boom by giving free handouts to many of the impoverished. How does Maduro actually stay in power? It seems like from the outside, with the violence, inflation, and general instability, that Maduro has failed to keep the Bolivar Revolution viable. Do you think Maduro, or one of his chronies will eventually be voted out by the populace? I'm genuinely interested in your side of the story as I can't get non-biased news in the US about Venezuela.

topspin 11y ago

Except the history hasn't been one where Venezuelans merely `tighten belts' and struggle through. The last time this happened (suddenly raising gas prices because the financial gears have finally stripped) under Pérez the Caracazo happened. That led to Chávez and the complete destruction of the Venezuelan economy. There is no hope. Venezuela is in for violence and coups again. You should expect one of the outlying cities to go nuclear soon as the last trickle of goods dry up at some PDVAL outlet and hungry people start throwing stuff. The international media will suddenly rediscover Venezuela and adopt the usual talking points about low oil prices, studiously ignoring the last 17 years of deliberate left-wing economic destruction. Then the cries for `humanitarian aid'... and if it isn't forthcoming double-time then we'll be blamed for every subsequent tragedy. My sympathy for this is already exhausted. When Chávez-then-Maduro struggled with elections they put a gun to the head of electronics shop owners and let `the people' steal the flat screens at fairy tale prices. When citizens are so debased as to believe that this is a legitimate way to run things -- and indeed vote for it -- then no amount is suffering is undeserved. I can find sympathy for the children, but everyone else has earned what is coming. And that includes all the financiers when Venezuela defaults and their money goes to money heaven.

rafaelm 11y ago
I also think a violent outcome is the only way for a change to happen, unfortunately. But I don't know how far away it is. We've already been through a lot and people seem to just go about their daily business like zombies. Wake up, go to the markets to line up to get a handout (if it's your turn that day), repeat. Things are getting more and more desperate, but I don't see a breaking point. I don't know if people are just waiting for things to sort themselves out or what. We have frequent power outages, no food , no medicine (I've been looking for an iron supplement for my pregnant wife for over a week now), nothing. And people just keep rolling with it. Let's see how long the patience lasts. It's not going to be pretty unfortunately.
- bitJericho 11y ago
  Riots happen after people can't get food or water. That will happen very soon. I would get out of there now if you can. Good luck.