6 ms·

Pilot posts detailed MS Flight Sim video of how to land Boeing 737

75 points by J-dawg 11y ago

anjc 11y ago
Pretty cool. What's the likelihood of this every happening to a member of the public these days? I presume that, in the eventuality of all pilots being out, there's a hierarchy of people who would then take over? I.e. if there are no pilots on board, the head of the cabin crew would perform this?
- pc86 11y ago
  I would imagine they have some sort of existing procedure for this. They could call over the PA and say that the pilot wants to know if there are any GA pilots on board or some other cover story first. Edit: For what it's worth this was posted on some aviation-specific forums I follow and there are several inaccuracies in the video. It's the person is not a 737 pilot but they may be a commercial pilot certified for some other aircraft, or just someone with a lot of time on their hands.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    One thing for sure is they won't use the pa as it will cause panic. There might be some thing like with doctors where you can register and they'll know you are one but I'm not sure. For the most part there inst a situation in which you going to have both pilots unavailable and the aircraft isn't going to be plummeting into the ground.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  The purser doesn't get any special training, I don't know of any incident on a commercial scale in which the pilot and the copilot were incapacitated or dead and the crew had even time to react. There were plenty of incidents with small aircraft especially training aircraft where a non pilot had to land it but I don't think anyone untrained was ever in a position to land something as big as 737.
  - JorgeGT 11y ago
    From memory the closest event would be Helios Airways Flight 522 crash, where passage and crew were incapacitated by hypoxia. A flight attendant who was a certified commercial pilot (but without experience on a 737) managed to resist awake thanks to a portable oxygen supply and enter the cockpit. He even waved at the chase F-16 next to him but one engine flamed out as soon as he entered and the plane started to descend, crashing just 15 min later. Maybe if he had had more time (and oxygen) he could have managed to bring the aircraft to an airport, but we will never know.
- fao_ 11y ago
  Would they even be able to enter the cockpit? IIRC since 9/11 the door to a cockpit is kept locked under almost[0] all circumstances[1]. I am not sure if this holds for all airlines though. [0]: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/08/how-to-hijack-an-airplane-in-3-seconds/243631/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/08/how-to-h... [1]: http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-german-jet-crash-door-20150325-story.html http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-german-jet-crash-door-201...
  - chmars 11y ago
    The cabin crew can unlock the door if the pilots do not intentionally keep the door looked as the Germanwings suicide pilot did.
    - fao_ 11y ago
      But that was exactly my point. That: a) It appears to be standard procedure in the aftermath of 9/11 to keep the cabin doors locked at all times. b) Many of the cases mentioned where this is useful are cases where the cabin crew are incapacitated due to, say, hypoxia or some other malady. Given both of these I fail to see how this skill is as useful as others appear to be claiming it to be.
freshyill 11y ago
I thought modern airliners could pretty much fly themselves, or is takeoff and landing outside the scope of the automation?
- rangibaby 11y ago
  A pilot licensed to fly smaller aircraft wasn't able to save this plane: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
  - VLM 11y ago
    Non-pilots think all the pilot training is learning to fly. Pilots know flying is very easy, all the training is learning how to survive uncountable emergencies and failures. And economics and judgment and experience and doing it smoothly and a few other things. Landing a large jet is very easy in a simulator. A random untrained person saving a plane that's out of fuel is impossible.
    - EvanPlaice 11y ago
      Exactly! Black box data is retrieved analyzed and scenarios are prepared for pilots to train against. I used to work in flight simulation and have flown a few different types. I designed the UI for the malfunctions/preselect system and while we had the head pilot trainer in to test the system one day we decided to mess with him. We gave him a 35kt cross wind. Failed 2 out of 3 of the engines, as well as various hydraulics systems. Aside from the hilarity of watching the simulator engineer following orders to hand-crank the imaginary landing gear, the pilot made a near perfect landing without breaking a sweat. I've had enough times in sim cockpits to confidently say that I could land a commercial aircraft if necessary. I can also confidently say that it would take me a dozen attempts to make that landing without crashing. Let alone a clean almost textbook touch down.
    - chmars 11y ago
      It depends, professional pilots often botch landings and swear in the cockpit although these landings are still safe (enough) … A landing attempt by a passenger as shown in the YouTube video would probably end with a crash since some manual flying is involved in the end. It is very unlikely that a passenger would getting the controls right at the first time and he (or she) would certainly not be able to perform a go-around. Autoland would be more helpful. In the worst cased, an aircraft can land without flaps and without 'three greens' if the runway is long enough with a high probability of survival for the passengers. Speed control is of course important but the correct speeds for a zero-flap landing could be given from the ground via radio.
JorgeGT 11y ago
Wouldn't he be directed to attempt a CAT IIIA (or B) ILS autolanding? Edit: see sample video of the procedure here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIaMALJjOEc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIaMALJjOEc Edit II: see the same guy "remotely" guiding a random person to land using the autoland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7WMQUDGDD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7WMQUDGDD4
- will_asouka 11y ago
  Autoland would definitely be preferable, a CAT III ILS would be ideal although you can still autoland off a CAT I beam. CAT IIIs tend to be limited to big airports due to cost and restrictions on the surrounding terrain and obstacles. With autoland though, it's not just a simple button push. The aircraft needs to be descended around any terrain, navigated through any weather, and put into the landing configuration. If it'll be landing somewhere other than the planned destination, there's also a fair amount of reprogramming of the FMS.
  - JorgeGT 11y ago
    > there's also a fair amount of reprogramming of the FMS That was something I was missing. Probably complicated when you are scared to death. But still a CAT I glideslope descent/touchdown would be preferably to landing with the PAPI I think. (Funny detail, papi means daddy in Spanish!)
    - neppo 11y ago
      same for german, PAPI means daddy
- UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
  The video is fun but he makes it far more complicated than it really needed to be. Additionally the only useful piece of advice is the headset/microphone/etc, after that ATC will tell the surrogate EXACTLY what they need to do, down to the switch and position. This video would be better split into two: One where they have no ATC contact, and another where they do. But I strongly agree, if you have ATC contact they're going to do an ILS landing, even if that requires sending you to a bigger airport that has ILS and better ground support.
BuildTheRobots 11y ago
Tom Scott did an amusing if brief "How to land a plane in an emergency" video a little while ago that people might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3R1ajg8dTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3R1ajg8dTY
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
throw7 11y ago
There's lots of youtube videos of actual landings from the cockpit view even. I like to watch them and when flying I like listening to the radio chatter also if available.

75 points by J-dawg 11y ago

anjc 11y ago

Pretty cool. What's the likelihood of this every happening to a member of the public these days? I presume that, in the eventuality of all pilots being out, there's a hierarchy of people who would then take over? I.e. if there are no pilots on board, the head of the cabin crew would perform this?

pc86 11y ago
I would imagine they have some sort of existing procedure for this. They could call over the PA and say that the pilot wants to know if there are any GA pilots on board or some other cover story first. Edit: For what it's worth this was posted on some aviation-specific forums I follow and there are several inaccuracies in the video. It's the person is not a 737 pilot but they may be a commercial pilot certified for some other aircraft, or just someone with a lot of time on their hands.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  One thing for sure is they won't use the pa as it will cause panic. There might be some thing like with doctors where you can register and they'll know you are one but I'm not sure. For the most part there inst a situation in which you going to have both pilots unavailable and the aircraft isn't going to be plummeting into the ground.
dogma1138 11y ago
The purser doesn't get any special training, I don't know of any incident on a commercial scale in which the pilot and the copilot were incapacitated or dead and the crew had even time to react. There were plenty of incidents with small aircraft especially training aircraft where a non pilot had to land it but I don't think anyone untrained was ever in a position to land something as big as 737.
- JorgeGT 11y ago
  From memory the closest event would be Helios Airways Flight 522 crash, where passage and crew were incapacitated by hypoxia. A flight attendant who was a certified commercial pilot (but without experience on a 737) managed to resist awake thanks to a portable oxygen supply and enter the cockpit. He even waved at the chase F-16 next to him but one engine flamed out as soon as he entered and the plane started to descend, crashing just 15 min later. Maybe if he had had more time (and oxygen) he could have managed to bring the aircraft to an airport, but we will never know.
fao_ 11y ago
Would they even be able to enter the cockpit? IIRC since 9/11 the door to a cockpit is kept locked under almost[0] all circumstances[1]. I am not sure if this holds for all airlines though. [0]: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/08/how-to-hijack-an-airplane-in-3-seconds/243631/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/08/how-to-h... [1]: http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-german-jet-crash-door-20150325-story.html http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-german-jet-crash-door-201...
- chmars 11y ago
  The cabin crew can unlock the door if the pilots do not intentionally keep the door looked as the Germanwings suicide pilot did.
  - fao_ 11y ago
    But that was exactly my point. That: a) It appears to be standard procedure in the aftermath of 9/11 to keep the cabin doors locked at all times. b) Many of the cases mentioned where this is useful are cases where the cabin crew are incapacitated due to, say, hypoxia or some other malady. Given both of these I fail to see how this skill is as useful as others appear to be claiming it to be.

freshyill 11y ago

I thought modern airliners could pretty much fly themselves, or is takeoff and landing outside the scope of the automation?

rangibaby 11y ago
A pilot licensed to fly smaller aircraft wasn't able to save this plane: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
- VLM 11y ago
  Non-pilots think all the pilot training is learning to fly. Pilots know flying is very easy, all the training is learning how to survive uncountable emergencies and failures. And economics and judgment and experience and doing it smoothly and a few other things. Landing a large jet is very easy in a simulator. A random untrained person saving a plane that's out of fuel is impossible.
  - EvanPlaice 11y ago
    Exactly! Black box data is retrieved analyzed and scenarios are prepared for pilots to train against. I used to work in flight simulation and have flown a few different types. I designed the UI for the malfunctions/preselect system and while we had the head pilot trainer in to test the system one day we decided to mess with him. We gave him a 35kt cross wind. Failed 2 out of 3 of the engines, as well as various hydraulics systems. Aside from the hilarity of watching the simulator engineer following orders to hand-crank the imaginary landing gear, the pilot made a near perfect landing without breaking a sweat. I've had enough times in sim cockpits to confidently say that I could land a commercial aircraft if necessary. I can also confidently say that it would take me a dozen attempts to make that landing without crashing. Let alone a clean almost textbook touch down.
  - chmars 11y ago
    It depends, professional pilots often botch landings and swear in the cockpit although these landings are still safe (enough) … A landing attempt by a passenger as shown in the YouTube video would probably end with a crash since some manual flying is involved in the end. It is very unlikely that a passenger would getting the controls right at the first time and he (or she) would certainly not be able to perform a go-around. Autoland would be more helpful. In the worst cased, an aircraft can land without flaps and without 'three greens' if the runway is long enough with a high probability of survival for the passengers. Speed control is of course important but the correct speeds for a zero-flap landing could be given from the ground via radio.

JorgeGT 11y ago

Wouldn't he be directed to attempt a CAT IIIA (or B) ILS autolanding? Edit: see sample video of the procedure here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIaMALJjOEc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIaMALJjOEc Edit II: see the same guy "remotely" guiding a random person to land using the autoland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7WMQUDGDD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7WMQUDGDD4

will_asouka 11y ago
Autoland would definitely be preferable, a CAT III ILS would be ideal although you can still autoland off a CAT I beam. CAT IIIs tend to be limited to big airports due to cost and restrictions on the surrounding terrain and obstacles. With autoland though, it's not just a simple button push. The aircraft needs to be descended around any terrain, navigated through any weather, and put into the landing configuration. If it'll be landing somewhere other than the planned destination, there's also a fair amount of reprogramming of the FMS.
- JorgeGT 11y ago
  > there's also a fair amount of reprogramming of the FMS That was something I was missing. Probably complicated when you are scared to death. But still a CAT I glideslope descent/touchdown would be preferably to landing with the PAPI I think. (Funny detail, papi means daddy in Spanish!)
  - neppo 11y ago
    same for german, PAPI means daddy
UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
The video is fun but he makes it far more complicated than it really needed to be. Additionally the only useful piece of advice is the headset/microphone/etc, after that ATC will tell the surrogate EXACTLY what they need to do, down to the switch and position. This video would be better split into two: One where they have no ATC contact, and another where they do. But I strongly agree, if you have ATC contact they're going to do an ILS landing, even if that requires sending you to a bigger airport that has ILS and better ground support.

BuildTheRobots 11y ago

Tom Scott did an amusing if brief "How to land a plane in an emergency" video a little while ago that people might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3R1ajg8dTY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3R1ajg8dTY

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

throw7 11y ago

There's lots of youtube videos of actual landings from the cockpit view even. I like to watch them and when flying I like listening to the radio chatter also if available.