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Here's why I use Flask for every web project: - It is both 'out of my way' and flexible enough to scale up. I.e. you can start with a 5 LOC hello world, but it

Here's why I use Flask for every web project: - It is both 'out of my way' and flexible enough to scale up. I.e. you can start with a 5 LOC hello world, but it still handles a large app with lots of components well (Blueprints). - It doesn't force a data model / DB onto me - I can just plug in whatever I have (unlike Django). - It doesn't even force a templating engine onto me - I always use mustache instead of jinja2 (it's extremely tiny, tidy and portable to any language, so it's much easier to port code to other devices / platforms). - wanna just get started? `sudo pip install Flask && python ./hello.py` --> served on localhost:5000. I recently started a project[1] while in a meeting with someone complaining about some complex app we had - built a prototype with him together that could replace the entire thing and solves problems we had in 2h. Having a foolproof starting point without any configuration and then being able to build up from there is essential. [1] https://github.com/muellermichel/guetzli https://github.com/muellermichel/guetzli

waprin 11y ago
I like Flask a lot, but I take issue with: > It doesn't force a data model / DB onto me - I can just plug in whatever I have (unlike Django). Django doesn't force a data model onto you anymore than Flask does - nobody is forcing you to use the Django ORM. Any database code you write for a Flask app could be re-used in a Django app. What the Django ORM does do is allow you to write portable apps and extensions. For example, suppose someone writes an extension for Flask that uses SQLAlchemy. If I'm writing a Flask app and only have a Mongo database available, I can't use that extension. On the other hand, if someone uses the Django ORM to write that extension, as long as I have a Django backend for my database, I can use their extension. It abstracts away the underlying datastore. Besides just which database you are using, you can also write a variety of code that works with Django models. Now granted, this abstraction can be severely leaky and flawed at times, but it's still quite powerful overall. Django provides a conventional, standard way to address the issue of interacting with data in a general way. Again, nobody is forcing you to use it, because you can just bypass the ORM and write your database code directly. It's just a powerful paradigm if you do embrace it.
- m_mueller 11y ago
  I agree that you can use Django without the ORM, but IMO it makes it kind of pointless - what advantage would you get over something more lightweight? The reason why I'd use Django over Flask is if I want to use at least a few out-of-the box solutions or extensions, say a standard Admin interface. However, I'm just the type who prefers building this stuff either myself or using standard components that are decoupled from everything else as much as possible. If an underlying framework allows me to build stuff in a tidy and quick way, that's what I'm going to use. So it's not just about what you can do, it's about how the ecosystem around that tool works.
  - waprin 11y ago
    It's obviously to a large degree personal preference, opinionated frameworks vs microframeworks. The reason why I would still use Django even if I wasn't using the ORM is because 1) I'm still probably using the ORM. I was just noting that for any data that the ORM doesn't fit well, you don't have to use it. 2) Why is Flask "lighter weight" than Django? From my perspective, as soon as you start writing a real app, you end up reinventing all these basic things like file layout using your own conventions, instead of a standard one that people are familiar with. The mental burden of figuring out your special snowflake conventions makes it 'heavier' weight to me. But again, personal preference :) Flask is obviously much better for really simple stuff, and does provide a great framework for extensions, even if I still lean towards Django.
    - angvp 11y ago
      I think is a myth than Flask is lighter than Django, in my experience I had a Django app and a Flask app we started with Flask because we believed that myth, in the end we had an application like 10 times bigger in code, we refactored in less than a week and the performance was even better for Django than Flask app. I know this is not a Flask vs Django post, but I woudln't use something than is almost 3 years ago from the last release and they're promising a new release from almost a year.
      - 11y ago
IndianAstronaut 11y ago
>It doesn't force a data model / DB onto me - I can just plug in whatever I have (unlike Django When starting with Django the data model is quite inflexible and difficult to work with. Especially the primary key issues.
PuercoPop 11y ago
Check out pyramid. It is more even more 'pay as you go' than flask. And more amenable to extension (ej. Router strategies)
- m_mueller 11y ago
  I can imagine there are tools that are even better than Flask for this task in some ways. Just like there are tools better than the Swiss Army knife. The thing is, there has basically never been a situation where Flask has left me wanting more, so for me it's 'good enough', thus if I try anything else it's hard to justify the cost. But for someone who's still searching I'm sure it's a good idea to check it out.
PuercoPop 11y ago
Check out pyramid. It is more even more 'pay as you go' than flask. And more amenable to extension (ej. Router strategies)

waprin 11y ago

I like Flask a lot, but I take issue with: > It doesn't force a data model / DB onto me - I can just plug in whatever I have (unlike Django). Django doesn't force a data model onto you anymore than Flask does - nobody is forcing you to use the Django ORM. Any database code you write for a Flask app could be re-used in a Django app. What the Django ORM does do is allow you to write portable apps and extensions. For example, suppose someone writes an extension for Flask that uses SQLAlchemy. If I'm writing a Flask app and only have a Mongo database available, I can't use that extension. On the other hand, if someone uses the Django ORM to write that extension, as long as I have a Django backend for my database, I can use their extension. It abstracts away the underlying datastore. Besides just which database you are using, you can also write a variety of code that works with Django models. Now granted, this abstraction can be severely leaky and flawed at times, but it's still quite powerful overall. Django provides a conventional, standard way to address the issue of interacting with data in a general way. Again, nobody is forcing you to use it, because you can just bypass the ORM and write your database code directly. It's just a powerful paradigm if you do embrace it.

m_mueller 11y ago
I agree that you can use Django without the ORM, but IMO it makes it kind of pointless - what advantage would you get over something more lightweight? The reason why I'd use Django over Flask is if I want to use at least a few out-of-the box solutions or extensions, say a standard Admin interface. However, I'm just the type who prefers building this stuff either myself or using standard components that are decoupled from everything else as much as possible. If an underlying framework allows me to build stuff in a tidy and quick way, that's what I'm going to use. So it's not just about what you can do, it's about how the ecosystem around that tool works.
- waprin 11y ago
  It's obviously to a large degree personal preference, opinionated frameworks vs microframeworks. The reason why I would still use Django even if I wasn't using the ORM is because 1) I'm still probably using the ORM. I was just noting that for any data that the ORM doesn't fit well, you don't have to use it. 2) Why is Flask "lighter weight" than Django? From my perspective, as soon as you start writing a real app, you end up reinventing all these basic things like file layout using your own conventions, instead of a standard one that people are familiar with. The mental burden of figuring out your special snowflake conventions makes it 'heavier' weight to me. But again, personal preference :) Flask is obviously much better for really simple stuff, and does provide a great framework for extensions, even if I still lean towards Django.
  - angvp 11y ago
    I think is a myth than Flask is lighter than Django, in my experience I had a Django app and a Flask app we started with Flask because we believed that myth, in the end we had an application like 10 times bigger in code, we refactored in less than a week and the performance was even better for Django than Flask app. I know this is not a Flask vs Django post, but I woudln't use something than is almost 3 years ago from the last release and they're promising a new release from almost a year.
    - 11y ago

IndianAstronaut 11y ago

>It doesn't force a data model / DB onto me - I can just plug in whatever I have (unlike Django When starting with Django the data model is quite inflexible and difficult to work with. Especially the primary key issues.

PuercoPop 11y ago

Check out pyramid. It is more even more 'pay as you go' than flask. And more amenable to extension (ej. Router strategies)

m_mueller 11y ago
I can imagine there are tools that are even better than Flask for this task in some ways. Just like there are tools better than the Swiss Army knife. The thing is, there has basically never been a situation where Flask has left me wanting more, so for me it's 'good enough', thus if I try anything else it's hard to justify the cost. But for someone who's still searching I'm sure it's a good idea to check it out.

PuercoPop 11y ago

Check out pyramid. It is more even more 'pay as you go' than flask. And more amenable to extension (ej. Router strategies)