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At most companies if you changed careers near 30, you will never get a chance to talk with someone and show your potential. The HR filters are so tight that unl

At most companies if you changed careers near 30, you will never get a chance to talk with someone and show your potential. The HR filters are so tight that unless you know someone on the inside of a company who can pull strings, you'll never get asked in for an interview. I'm watching my wife - a lawyer with math degree and programming experience - struggle to even get responses for junior QA positions. I think the job market will have to get much tighter before companies start hiring people retraining into software. Hiring processes are optimized for new college grads and people with industry experience. Retraining programs are going to fall on their faces if we can't reform HR to hire smart, motivated people that lack a laundry list of qualifications.

waterlesscloud 11y ago
Remember, though, America has a critical shortage of programmers and we desperately need to allow more to immigrate!!!
- HillaryBriss 11y ago
  Adding to that paradox, a major theme of the original post is that personal connections are really important to getting a startup job. So, startups are really looking hard outside the founders' circle of friends to find the most qualified applicants?
  - cscharenberg 11y ago
    This is something I commented on recently. Retraining programs and those already in the industry say social networking will get these people jobs. But they have the weakest networks in their new career. Yes, I could reach into 100 companies through my network and get an interview. A new person cannot. The assumption of using social networks is true only for those already established. Longer discussion of that as a comment on this blog post (http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiative.html http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiati...)
- gizi 11y ago
  Virtual teams do not need to deal with immigration. So, what's next? Immigration offices on the backbones of the internet?
wdewind 11y ago
Apply to startups. I don't know what else to tell you. I'm seeing TONS of people (for better or worse) get placed in jobs after completing coding bootcamps. Some of them have >90% placement rates.
- jlees 11y ago
  Startups (depending on the size) are both wonderful and terrible places for a new bootcamp grad. There is a lot to learn, and learn quickly, which is something any bootcamp grad has had to master -- but there is often a dearth of mentoring and, as time goes on, patience for junior mistakes. Larger startups are much better than small ones, in my experience working both on the startup and bootcamp (instructor, mentor) sides of the table -- especially larger startups who have already hired from that bootcamp, or a similar one, before. Then you have the alumni-mentor train going, and life is great.
totalrobe 11y ago
From personal experience, it's better to try to make a move within a related industry - for example if she has law experience, look for software companies that create applications and systems used in the law world. She could probably more easily get into a more client-facing role where domain experience is a plus, like project/product management or some kind of implementation/consultant position. From there, she could make a lateral move into a more techie role if desired.
- cscharenberg 11y ago
  You might be onto something there. I will pass that thought onto her, that a legal-focused software company may give her more of a look than others. Thanks for the idea
  - spdionis 11y ago
    Wasn't that obvious?! Sorry for the tone of the comment but really...
busterarm 11y ago
> Apply to startups. I don't know what else to tell you. I'm seeing TONS of people (for better or worse) get placed in jobs after completing coding bootcamps. Some of them have >90% placement rates. @wdewind: I'm over 30, went to a bootcamp and changed careers (from something else in tech). It's still hard to get a good position in this situation. Yes, tons of people who get out of bootcamps get jobs but 90%+ of bootcamp grads are essentially new grads with little work experience. I was one of two people over 30. Ultimately, demonstrable programming skill seems to factor in very little for junior positions. Maybe in general. Growing startups actually had the lowest response rate for any of us with actual work experience. Most of my interviews ended up being either large companies or early-stage startups that wanted to pay _waaaaaaay_ under-market and worthless equity (NY).
- wdewind 11y ago
  Yes, you're not going to get paid market rate as a junior developer coming from a bootcamp. Hell, most startups aren't paying senior level people market rate when compared to G/FB etc. My first job was hugely under market rate. I was up to market rate in about 3 years. But I had to change jobs 3 times to do it. It's not easy, definitely not saying that. But it's doable. > Ultimately, demonstrable programming skill seems to factor in very little for junior positions. This has not been my experience.
  - busterarm 11y ago
    I came out as a solid mid-level fullstack dev, but mainly due to my experience and side-projects. Tons of folks in my bootcamp went to the right schools though and got 100k+ jobs even though they were mediocre to average (for a junior) devs.
  - eric-hu 11y ago
    I've been having many discussions about this with another engineer friend. Is it really fair to call Google, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft and Amazon salaries "market rate". My impression is that they're generally in the top 10% of pay, if not higher. I think maximizing your compensation is great and everyone should spend some time on it. I just think having expectations of Google pay from a startup is a guaranteed recipe for disappointment. Read: I've heard of zero startups that offer that level of pay.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

waterlesscloud 11y ago

Remember, though, America has a critical shortage of programmers and we desperately need to allow more to immigrate!!!

HillaryBriss 11y ago
Adding to that paradox, a major theme of the original post is that personal connections are really important to getting a startup job. So, startups are really looking hard outside the founders' circle of friends to find the most qualified applicants?
- cscharenberg 11y ago
  This is something I commented on recently. Retraining programs and those already in the industry say social networking will get these people jobs. But they have the weakest networks in their new career. Yes, I could reach into 100 companies through my network and get an interview. A new person cannot. The assumption of using social networks is true only for those already established. Longer discussion of that as a comment on this blog post (http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiative.html http://www.siliconsloper.com/2016/02/tech-hire-utah-initiati...)
gizi 11y ago
Virtual teams do not need to deal with immigration. So, what's next? Immigration offices on the backbones of the internet?

wdewind 11y ago

Apply to startups. I don't know what else to tell you. I'm seeing TONS of people (for better or worse) get placed in jobs after completing coding bootcamps. Some of them have >90% placement rates.

jlees 11y ago
Startups (depending on the size) are both wonderful and terrible places for a new bootcamp grad. There is a lot to learn, and learn quickly, which is something any bootcamp grad has had to master -- but there is often a dearth of mentoring and, as time goes on, patience for junior mistakes. Larger startups are much better than small ones, in my experience working both on the startup and bootcamp (instructor, mentor) sides of the table -- especially larger startups who have already hired from that bootcamp, or a similar one, before. Then you have the alumni-mentor train going, and life is great.

totalrobe 11y ago

From personal experience, it's better to try to make a move within a related industry - for example if she has law experience, look for software companies that create applications and systems used in the law world. She could probably more easily get into a more client-facing role where domain experience is a plus, like project/product management or some kind of implementation/consultant position. From there, she could make a lateral move into a more techie role if desired.

cscharenberg 11y ago
You might be onto something there. I will pass that thought onto her, that a legal-focused software company may give her more of a look than others. Thanks for the idea
- spdionis 11y ago
  Wasn't that obvious?! Sorry for the tone of the comment but really...

busterarm 11y ago

> Apply to startups. I don't know what else to tell you. I'm seeing TONS of people (for better or worse) get placed in jobs after completing coding bootcamps. Some of them have >90% placement rates. @wdewind: I'm over 30, went to a bootcamp and changed careers (from something else in tech). It's still hard to get a good position in this situation. Yes, tons of people who get out of bootcamps get jobs but 90%+ of bootcamp grads are essentially new grads with little work experience. I was one of two people over 30. Ultimately, demonstrable programming skill seems to factor in very little for junior positions. Maybe in general. Growing startups actually had the lowest response rate for any of us with actual work experience. Most of my interviews ended up being either large companies or early-stage startups that wanted to pay _waaaaaaay_ under-market and worthless equity (NY).

wdewind 11y ago
Yes, you're not going to get paid market rate as a junior developer coming from a bootcamp. Hell, most startups aren't paying senior level people market rate when compared to G/FB etc. My first job was hugely under market rate. I was up to market rate in about 3 years. But I had to change jobs 3 times to do it. It's not easy, definitely not saying that. But it's doable. > Ultimately, demonstrable programming skill seems to factor in very little for junior positions. This has not been my experience.
- busterarm 11y ago
  I came out as a solid mid-level fullstack dev, but mainly due to my experience and side-projects. Tons of folks in my bootcamp went to the right schools though and got 100k+ jobs even though they were mediocre to average (for a junior) devs.
- eric-hu 11y ago
  I've been having many discussions about this with another engineer friend. Is it really fair to call Google, Apple, Facebook, Microsoft and Amazon salaries "market rate". My impression is that they're generally in the top 10% of pay, if not higher. I think maximizing your compensation is great and everyone should spend some time on it. I just think having expectations of Google pay from a startup is a guaranteed recipe for disappointment. Read: I've heard of zero startups that offer that level of pay.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]